Being alone • Hacker News Board

Re: Being alone

#81

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:25 PM UTC

fit2rule wrote: post #10

One of the best things I've ever done for myself is pack up and move to another country - just to get out of the cultural bubble we all get wrapped up in. Culture is nothing but a bunch of lies; when you shift from one to the other and give yourself a reset, you see just how much this brings to bear on the individual. Eventually, dealing with a foreign language and strange people can be quite enlightening, if you tre…

Ditto but instead of countries I moved from the Northeast US to the Upper Midwest. Same countries, but personalities, and people's general mood were so different it felt like a foreign country.

In my case I knew that I needed a change and had to force myself out of the mold I had grown into. Moving halfway across the country to a place I had never been, not knowing anyone there was just the kick in the ass I needed.

Re: Being alone

#82

Post by iamleppert » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:25 PM UTC

While reading this I couldn't help but feel sorry for this guy. What a depressing and uninspiring life to pour all your energy into one thing and at the same time sacrifice some of the best years of your life. For what? A start-up and the promise of becoming rich or tech famous?

We are all social creatures. The inability to be social is most definitely a problem, and leading a lifestyle that deprives you of a stimulating, diverse group of friends is damaging and unsustainable.

I'm happy this guy ventured out into an unfamiliar social situation. People are often afraid of doing stuff like this because they think it will be uncomfortable. And, indeed, sometimes it is. However, that doesn't mean you need to become anti-social.

Re: Being alone

#83

Post by king_jester » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:25 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #21

jskopek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you disagree with the author? Depending on where you live, his point is very valid. As a resident of Canada, I feel that I live in a fairly progressive, culturally diverse society. Yet even here, I have heard friends of different ethnicities complain about racial issues. Not all racial or gender divisions are obvious; exclusion or denial of privilege is harder to spot.

There's a big difference in perspective between saying "the majority is privileged" and saying "the minority is disadvantaged". When the majority is heterosexual, white, and "cis-gendered", isn't that the baseline instead of privileged?

Having your status considered the baseline is a part of privilege. Folks who fall outside of that baseline face real negative consequences for it. Both "the majority is privileged" and "the minority is disadvantaged" are true at the same time.

Re: Being alone

#84

Post by shinratdr » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:28 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #43

shinratdr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends entirely on the direction you're observing from.

Let's say things are set up to pander to the majority, even when it puts a minority at a disadvantage. What is the argument for making things harder for the majority, to equalize things for the minority? On average, society would come out worse, so you'd have to argue that equality itself is more valuable than any advantage for the majority.

> On average, society would come out worse

That's a massive leap in logic. Society isn't a simple one in, one out metric.

Re: Being alone

#85

Post by phillmv » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:28 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #43

shinratdr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends entirely on the direction you're observing from.

Let's say things are set up to pander to the majority, even when it puts a minority at a disadvantage. What is the argument for making things harder for the majority, to equalize things for the minority? On average, society would come out worse, so you'd have to argue that equality itself is more valuable than any advantage for the majority.

Well, by your own metaphor on _average_ society would come out the same, by definition. (I suspect you meant median).

As a result, it sounds like you're saying "screw you, I got mine". We can flip the question around: why does this majority deserve better opportunities? There aren't very good answers to that question.

The main thing I'd point out is that unlike your metaphor society is not a zero-sum game.

Re: Being alone

#86

Post by king_jester » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:29 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #43

shinratdr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends entirely on the direction you're observing from.

Let's say things are set up to pander to the majority, even when it puts a minority at a disadvantage. What is the argument for making things harder for the majority, to equalize things for the minority? On average, society would come out worse, so you'd have to argue that equality itself is more valuable than any advantage for the majority.

> What is the argument for making things harder for the majority, to equalize things for the minority?

Nobody is arguing to make things harder or worse for those with privilege. Generally people are asking for equal consideration and opportunity and a recognition of past and existing injustice.

Re: Being alone

#87

Post by sp332 » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:29 PM UTC

king_jester wrote: post #83

sp332 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference in perspective between saying "the majority is privileged" and saying "the minority is disadvantaged". When the majority is heterosexual, white, and "cis-gendered", isn't that the baseline instead of privileged?

Having your status considered the baseline is a part of privilege. Folks who fall outside of that baseline face real negative consequences for it. Both "the majority is privileged" and "the minority is disadvantaged" are true at the same time.

OK so the majority has some privilege just from being the majority. But that isn't a moral failing, something they should be ashamed of, something they shouldn't take full advantage of, or something they can change. So it doesn't seem to have anything in common with, say, racism or sexism.

Re: Being alone

#88

Post by rsml » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:32 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #43

shinratdr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends entirely on the direction you're observing from.

Let's say things are set up to pander to the majority, even when it puts a minority at a disadvantage. What is the argument for making things harder for the majority, to equalize things for the minority? On average, society would come out worse, so you'd have to argue that equality itself is more valuable than any advantage for the majority.

Taken to its logical extreme, you could argue that sometimes it is advantageous for a society to harvest the organs of a healthy person, so that multiple people can have their lives extended through transplantation. Eugenics can also be argued for by saying that there's a net benefit to society.

One argument against this is based on the philosophical concept of a Veil of Ignorance[1]. We should create the rules of society as if we don't already know what our position in society will be. No one wants to live in a society where they could be randomly selected for organ harvesting, for example.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance

Re: Being alone

#89

Post by sdfjkl » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:34 PM UTC

danpat wrote: post #18

fit2rule wrote: post #10

One of the best things I've ever done for myself is pack up and move to another country - just to get out of the cultural bubble we all get wrapped up in. Culture is nothing but a bunch of lies; when you shift from one to the other and give yourself a reset, you see just how much this brings to bear on the individual. Eventually, dealing with a foreign language and strange people can be quite enlightening, if you tre…

This absolutely mirrors my own experience.

Mine as well. It will change you for live, and from my experience meeting other expats, I think for the better. You get a whole new perspective on both origin and destination countries. Even if you go back after a few years, you'll be changed.

No, going somewhere on holiday for a few weeks/months is not the same. You have to live and make a living there.

Re: Being alone

#90

Post by king_jester » Tue, Oct 29, 2013, 7:34 PM UTC

Stealth- wrote: post #42

shinratdr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all they had to do to get that was to be ripped from their homes and placed into residential schools, which existed into the 60s. What a sweet deal! This smacks of tremendous ignorance of the history of First Nations people and what white Canadians have done to them. It's possibly the most concrete demonstration of white privilege I've ever seen. "Well gee, I'm just a simple guy, but I don't think trying to balan…

Growing up in a poorer neighbourhood, the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars. My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. So I should have less because of what someone with the same skin colour as me did decades a…

> Growing up in a poorer neighbourhood, the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars.

Everyone should have access to these things, that some first nations people got this while you didn't isn't a problem with first nations people, but society at large not caring for its members. Of course, it is important to remember that first nations people experience that lack of care in unique and often violent ways.

> My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. So I should have less because of what someone with the same skin colour as me did decades ago? Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know, discriminatory?

You or your immediate ancestors didn't have to be there to benefit from that past and the situation it fosters today. You frame this as you being targeted to get less, which is really far from the truth about how first nations people live in Canada today. Finally, no you are not being discriminated against, you are benefiting directly and indirectly from past and current colonialist policies in Canada if you are white.