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America knows everything

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Re: America knows everything

#81

Post by anigbrowl »

nisa wrote: post #59
MichaelGG wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if they suspect you of lying, then of course they're not going to coach you on what's allowed so you can say the right thing. That makes no sense. Their overall reaction seems way out of proportion here, I agree. But the general tactic of questioning someone seems sorta like the entire point of having these agents in the first place.

Maybe I'm naive but I'd thought along the line that they could issue a warning that he needs a visa to enter and will unlikely be granted access without it. If he gives false information in the visa that process is probably the only option left - but in my opinion this still does not justify the treatment.

While I don't agree with the immigration rules, they are easily available and clearly spelled out on US embassy websites.

Re: America knows everything

#82

Post by MichaelGG »

fleitz wrote: post #34

I feel bad for the guy, but having been across the US border a few times it's important that if you're travelling for anything but spending money in the US you'd better phone and find out if you need a work visa. Volunteering? VISA. Working for free? VISA. Might ask someone for change? VISA. Speaking at a conference? VISA. Having coffee with someone and may discuss business? VISA. Friend might buy you a beer? VISA. Y…

First, it's visa, not VISA (which is the credit card company).

Secondly, your examples are not correct. You're allowed to come over on visa waiver for business (it's one of the options to select), just not to perform work for compensation. You can certainly attend meetings.

Re: America knows everything

#84

Post by anigbrowl »

alive-or-not wrote: post #56
mullingitover wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very interesting that in the globalization of trade, capital is free to flow across borders without hassle. Labor, not so much.

Capital easily bribes politicians, labor not so much.

Until fairly recently labor was bending over backwards to enforce such controls in the belief that such laws were effective protections for American workers. The union movement is historically skeptical of markets and its adherents mostly subscribe uncritically to the 'lump of labor' fallacy. It's only in the last few years that they have jumped on the bandwagon for immigration reform; prior to that they were happy to blame a lot of their own structural problems on an influx of Mexicans.

Re: America knows everything

#85

Post by nraynaud »

Jd wrote: post #6

It's very hard to extrapolate from stories like this to know if the actual instance and intensity of abuses is increasing, or if reportage is increasing (i.e. landing on HN front page) because of folk's irritation with other aspects of the US government. For my money, TSA is right after HSA as far as FUBAR government agencies go. Seems like quality control is right in the shitter. As for solutions, I'd like to see a…

This is not about statistics, this is terrorism, you want 0 occurrences. You don't use gaussians and distributions on fat uneducated Americans investigating people's anus.

Re: America knows everything

#86

Post by catilac »

MichaelGG wrote: post #62
catilac wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think its weird to be strip searched, and kept from contacting worried parties, because you decided to play a non-profit show without a visa? Law or not, I don't think that makes sense.

And how is CBP supposed to know his entire intention was just to play a couple of non-profit shows? He admits he will be compensated (tips and food) for the shows. Maybe after that he's planning on getting paid shows, or something. As I understand the law, he could have stayed and appealed the decision. Not that they're going to tell you that or help you out - they're allowed to lie to you and so on. Strip searching…

Fair point. We have CBP for many reasons.

The mishandling is the primary issue at hand.

I wish there were honest statistics available, so that people could know for a fact that yes, there are or are not actually a lot of extreme cases like this.

Re: America knows everything

#87

Post by nfoz »

ye wrote: post #80
transfire wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the frail are you talking about? Why the hell do we have such ridiculous laws to begin with? What the hell kind of country have we become? It's certainly not the land of the FREE! The terrorists won. We lost.

You realize how high US salaries are? As a developer I can't get even half of what I'm making there, unless it's some ridiculously expensive country like Switzerland. If US were to open its borders for anybody who wants to work, it would collapse your labor market instantly. And it won't be the poor mexicans looking for low level jobs. It will be Indians, Chinese, Russians moving in millions to get a piece of that pi…

I don't care what nationality they are. If they're working as hard as I am, then they should get paid as much. That there are salary discrepancies between countries has a number of compounding factors, but often the U.S. has explicitly meddled in those countries in order to keep the "good jobs" to itself. Screw that.

Re: America knows everything

#88

Post by MortenK »

unreal37 wrote: post #29

To play devil's advocate, he traveled to the U.S. with a guitar, had 5 shows booked in advance before his arrival, uses a pseudonym to perform and didn't declare any of this to the border officials. I think the article can also say he has a CD coming out soon. I can actually see why he was turned away. He's a musician, hoping to travel and do some shows in the U.S. for fun. You can't work in the U.S. without a work v…

Probably the guy broke a rule, or could at least be interpreted as breaking a rule.

However, the infraction is so minor compared to the penalty. The guy wants to travel around the country and play music for free at a variety of venues. He can't do this because that's considered work.

That really shouldn't be grounds for detaining, rough interrogation, strip searching and finally deporting the guy, all the while not allowing him to communicate with the people who are waiting for him.

Such rules really shouldn't be considered acceptable in a free and open country.

Re: America knows everything

#89

Post by tn13 »

pudquick wrote: post #24

While I agree that this person was probably treated very poorly, I also want to point out that they were traveling for work purposes. In the United States, non-US citizens entering the country for work purposes are generally required to get a visa. There are a few (and very few at that) business exceptions to this process, as listed here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html He stated that he w…

Every now an then these kind of articles get popular on HN and someone points out that the person had done some wrong. I find it incredibly irritating. The reason why border security or any law enforcement agency exists is because we want to maintain reasonable order, one way to achieve it is enforcement of existing laws.

But somehow enforcement of rules, some of which are highly questionable has taken center-stage over creating a sense of order. It appears that US government and the security forces are operating out of paranoia, hitting those who cant hit back. This is sad.

America is a good country, many people will still give an arm and leg to get migrated to this country yet, with passage of time, while we all love America, we have began to despise the government. In the longer run it will have serious implications.

Re: America knows everything

#90

Post by pjlegato »

benched wrote: post #27

Even as a U.S. citizen, every time I've traveled to other countries in the past few years, it's always jarring going from the hospitable, friendly customs people in the other countries, to the literally rude awakening of getting practically accosted by the agents in the U.S. upon returning.

Try Russia or Germany - neither country has border officials that could be described as "hospitable" or "friendly." They make US border guards look like teddy bears.
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