Ikea's New Solar Panels: Sunshine Optional, Subsidies Required • Hacker News Board

Re: Ikea's New Solar Panels: Sunshine Optional, Subsidies Required

#81

Post by walshemj » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 4:48 PM UTC

tunesmith wrote: post #77

adam-a wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of a working class person, a middle class person could be considered rich. I was going to make a point that the middle class, being in the middle of the income-population pyramid, are more wealthy than the average. Interestingly, in the UK at least, 71% are middle class, which spoils that [0]. [0] - http://britainthinks.com/sites/default/files/reports/Speakin...

It used to be that the working class was the middle class.

Er no it wasn't/i'snt I know Tony Blair said "we are all middle class now" :-)

Class is a complex issue I am sure the miners who earn £80k plus pa consider themselves working class.

Also Americans (I am making an assumption here) often like to think that the US is a classless society but you are fooling your self if you think that the case.

Re: Ikea's New Solar Panels: Sunshine Optional, Subsidies Required

#82

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:08 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #80

toomuchtodo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money has to come from somewhere, and its either tax breaks or direct subsidies (ie. cash payments).

No government has an infinite amount of cash and there are better things (NHS, Infrastructure, Sovereign Wealth funds) to spend it on rather than a vast tax break for high net worth individuals.

Distributed renewable generation is infrastructure. Also, the health costs from coal fired generation are enormous.

Re: Ikea's New Solar Panels: Sunshine Optional, Subsidies Required

#83

Post by walshemj » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 10:43 PM UTC

bborud wrote: post #75

walshemj wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but giving vast tax breaks to upper middle class people isn't the way to do it and i say that as some one who could easily have done that (we have a v nice roof facing in just the right direction) Did you not see the original 8% tax free return for 20 years I mentioned - the uk 10 year yield is currently 2.7%

Then how do you suggest we get people to install solar panels?

I wouldn't I would put Rnd cash into fuel cell's both for local use and for vehicles.

Spare wind/wave energy can then be stored as hydrogen and used as fuel for both aplications.

Re: Ikea's New Solar Panels: Sunshine Optional, Subsidies Required

#84

Post by bborud » Fri, Oct 04, 2013, 2:07 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #83

bborud wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how do you suggest we get people to install solar panels?

I wouldn't I would put Rnd cash into fuel cell's both for local use and for vehicles. Spare wind/wave energy can then be stored as hydrogen and used as fuel for both aplications.

OK, I'll humor you: So how would you go about getting people to install hydrogen fuel cells if subsidies and tax breaks are off the table?

The main issue here is that solar panels are not yet cost effective (or energy neutral) -- not whether or not we believe in the technology. To make progress you need to get the ball rolling by creating a market so that you can fund development and gather practical experience. So the question remains: what mechanism is the appropriate mechanism for stimulating the necessary development?

Re: Ikea's New Solar Panels: Sunshine Optional, Subsidies Required

#85

Post by ag80 » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 5:48 PM UTC

ag80 wrote: post #29

mjn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One place to look for numbers more solid than people just claiming they would pay more, could be in areas with deregulated markets for home electricity, like Texas, where people have a choice of generation provider. Since generation is decoupled from transmission and maintenance, providers don't compete on reliability, but mainly on price and environmentalism. The "green" plans are typically $0.02-$0.04/kWh more expe…

Centerpoint has some overall price data they monitor at http://www.mytruecost.com , though at present it doesn't include distinctions between electricity sources. I submitted some feedback via their contact form suggesting they should put some data together.

They put a blog post up here: http://www.mytruecost.com/news/2013/10/3/how-green-are-truec...