Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#81

Post by enraged_camel » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:32 AM UTC

jdh wrote: post #42

karterk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP - but I did take a look at that page, and I do find it misleading. The "checkout as a regular member" is in a small font on the sidebar, while the main CTA is big, bold and defaults to the VIP program. The part where you're told about the monthly fee is in the last sentence of the sidebar. I had to practically hunt it to find it - for most people shopping online this will be oblivious. By giving the screen…

I don't accept the word "misleading" -- I do not believe the page in any way misleads. It does not try to position it as anything other than a subscription, and the language is plain english. Could they put the subscription details in bold? Could they use a larger font than all the other text? Sure. It's a tradeoff, for sure, and every retailer has to optimize their site to perform. Could they pop up three boxes afte…

The screenshot you provided is a prime example of a "dark pattern" where the process is designed to trick the user.

http://darkpatterns.org/

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#82

Post by KaiserPro » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:33 AM UTC

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

Put it this way, from the evidence I've seen, and the checkout screen that is attached further down, This website is illegal in the UK

The Office of fair trading would shut this site in a heart beat. (if it were based in the UK)

the checkout proccess is deliberately misleading, it implies that clicking checkout will by the shoes and nothing else.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#83

Post by Tepix » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:34 AM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #67

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

I'm not 100% sure but I think this site would not be allowed in Germany because of consumer protection laws. In that regard it's very telling that justfab.de has a very different checkout: http://imgur.com/uIZ5JX3

I find even that misleading because it doesn't mention the monthly fee. I'm pretty sure you could refuse to pay it and win in court.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#84

Post by tiatia » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:34 AM UTC

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

"if we assume the investors in this business do perform due diligence, is there another possible explanation? "

Wrong. Investors decided that they can make money with a business with an obvious predatory business model. It might be good money - at least in the short run, in the long run you run out of stupid people as I have seen with other types of such businesses - yet it is a company with a terrible business model.

Yes, I have looked at the picture you provided.

Shame on you.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#85

Post by neya » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:36 AM UTC

avalaunch wrote: post #69

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

The other commenters are being too nice in their replies. You're full of shit. JustFab is a shoe of the month club masquerading as a normal online shoe store. The VIP Membership Program is the essence of JustFab's business model and yet it's missing entirely from the home page of their site. It looks like any other shoe store. And yet you think it's clear that the user is being signed up for a shoe of the month membe…

At first, I disagreed with your tone and profanity. But now, after trying to checkout on that site myself, I realize that it's fair to treat people who knowingly aid scammers, this way. Especially when they are the ones who fund them. It's not like they are innocent little babies, right? They (the company and the investors) know obviously why the conversion rates are so high - Because they are very subtle-y scamming people. We must not encourage this type of shit. It will get back to us at some point. I am with you on this one.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#86

Post by cowls » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:36 AM UTC

avalaunch wrote: post #69

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

The other commenters are being too nice in their replies. You're full of shit. JustFab is a shoe of the month club masquerading as a normal online shoe store. The VIP Membership Program is the essence of JustFab's business model and yet it's missing entirely from the home page of their site. It looks like any other shoe store. And yet you think it's clear that the user is being signed up for a shoe of the month membe…

Agreed, complete scam. From that image it looks like you are making a standard purchase for a pair of shoes, and possibly just signing up to their site. Its only if you read in detail everything on that page and get down to 3 in the bottom right that it finally says you will be charged a monthly fee.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#87

Post by capex » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:36 AM UTC

avalaunch wrote: post #69

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

The other commenters are being too nice in their replies. You're full of shit. JustFab is a shoe of the month club masquerading as a normal online shoe store. The VIP Membership Program is the essence of JustFab's business model and yet it's missing entirely from the home page of their site. It looks like any other shoe store. And yet you think it's clear that the user is being signed up for a shoe of the month membe…

Came to say this. I can smell class action against JustFab.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#88

Post by brador » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:37 AM UTC

jdh wrote: post #42

karterk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP - but I did take a look at that page, and I do find it misleading. The "checkout as a regular member" is in a small font on the sidebar, while the main CTA is big, bold and defaults to the VIP program. The part where you're told about the monthly fee is in the last sentence of the sidebar. I had to practically hunt it to find it - for most people shopping online this will be oblivious. By giving the screen…

I don't accept the word "misleading" -- I do not believe the page in any way misleads. It does not try to position it as anything other than a subscription, and the language is plain english. Could they put the subscription details in bold? Could they use a larger font than all the other text? Sure. It's a tradeoff, for sure, and every retailer has to optimize their site to perform. Could they pop up three boxes afte…

Just a reminder folks, don't downvote just because you don't agree with what's being said.

Do downvote meaningless comments and clear spam.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#89

Post by kubiiii » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:37 AM UTC

jdh wrote: post #42

karterk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP - but I did take a look at that page, and I do find it misleading. The "checkout as a regular member" is in a small font on the sidebar, while the main CTA is big, bold and defaults to the VIP program. The part where you're told about the monthly fee is in the last sentence of the sidebar. I had to practically hunt it to find it - for most people shopping online this will be oblivious. By giving the screen…

I don't accept the word "misleading" -- I do not believe the page in any way misleads. It does not try to position it as anything other than a subscription, and the language is plain english. Could they put the subscription details in bold? Could they use a larger font than all the other text? Sure. It's a tradeoff, for sure, and every retailer has to optimize their site to perform. Could they pop up three boxes afte…

By optimizing you talk about misleading a small part of the users so that they pay the VIP fee without even noticing they are charged? Answer this simple question : do people receive an email to remind them they will be charged $39 this month so they should hurry picking a pair of shoes?

No wonder why you get a very high customer retention rate if ppl are not even aware they are customers.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#90

Post by mmvvaa » Fri, Sep 27, 2013, 7:38 AM UTC

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

"credits never expire. If you have 8 credits in your account, you can go get 8 pairs of shoes."

It is called breakage. If they do not expire now, they will start to expire soon. What good is it to accumulate some revenue, if you cannot claim it has no cost associated to it? Either you do not know what it represents, or you are playing a good card. Sorry for the sarcasm to start this, but it sounds fishy.

I have no ethical problem with sites that make it easier for customers to get an on-going service (a subscription), when it is more convenient to have it than the opposite. (cellphones, gas, electricity) In this cases, it is much more cool not to have to deal with $39 or whatever amount it is decided that the store wants to discount to call you upon that private VIP club. It is dirty pricing.

And yes, I did go to the link you provided, and I did noticed that it is not necessary to read 2,500 words to figure out that the company is walking a fine line in between ethics and law. Bravo, for the tack-team, probably composed of some 5th av creative minds and some hard knock lawyers.

But this does not exclude the fact that IF the site wants to be ethical, and IF it gets at least a very little percentage of its revenue due to this, it should try hard, very hard; to tell people that visit their site for their first time, that a little fuck you contract might fall in their lap that very day if they are not fully aware of what they are doing.

In fact, it it happened once, and you realize, it may be possible that it has been misleading, you should change it.

I really hope a more transparent player comes along and have you guys think about this very concerning issue deeply.

Sleep tight.