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Why you should join a big company first

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Re: Why you should join a big company first

#81

Post by ekm2 »

unono wrote: post #57
rybosome wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I thought this was satire, so bizarre was the vitriol against big corp. I work at one of the big "nefarious corporate" companies, and my life is incredibly happy; I'm proud of getting a job here and proud of the work I do. More importantly, I have time and money to travel, play music, live a healthier lifestyle and generally enjoy life outside of (and in addition to) work. Who gives a shit if "The Man" is ge…

I'm not even that concerned about getting rich. It's more about doing exactly what I want, when I want, and making a big impact (in terms of helping people) - without giving the billionaires any more power and money. As Jesus said - It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God. I'm an atheist, but there's a solid truth in that saying. If you can't make…

As Jesus said - It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God

It does not suggest poor people have it easier.After all,Jesus was technically a rich person doing an internship on earth.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#82

Post by the_watcher »

tptacek wrote: post #71
sillysaurus2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How, and over what timeframe?

Define a target (say, 1MM), a realistic interest rate, and head over to any compounding growth goal calculator; it'll tell you how much you need to set aside over 10-15 years to hit that target. To compare meaningfully to startup careers, you need to factor in the premium you pay to work at a startup (in reduced wages) and the very low odds of any given startup making its employee equity liquid. Generally, the differ…

It all depends on the startup. Don't go work for a startup just because it's a startup. You're better off at BigCo. But if you really believe in the startup, and they'll give you meaningful equity and compensation that is enough for your lifestyle, and you want the responsibility, I'd lean towards the startup. Again, the key here is that you really believe in the startup. There aren't many that you can honestly say that about early enough to make the compensation difference worth it.

Also, depending on your life phase, presence of employer-paid health insurance should be seriously considered.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#83

Post by chacham15 »

pg wrote: post #42
mjn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if you want to focus on other things besides work, you're better off with a regular job than trying to start a startup. Or, alternately: if you're a rational agent interested in maximizing risk-adjusted returns, you're better off with a regular job than trying to start a startup.

Depends how good you are. If you're very good, you have better expected value working for yourself than averaging your work together with a bunch of other people. If not you're better off working for someone else. (You're making a common statistical mistake here. You're concluding that because 1/x startups succeed, the odds of each person's startup succeeding is 1/x. You can see this clearly if you ask what the proba…

> (You're making a common statistical mistake here. You're concluding that because 1/x startups succeed, the odds of each person's startup succeeding is 1/x. You can see this clearly if you ask what the probability is that someone is over 6 feet tall. Although 1/x people are, the probability for each person is either 1 or 0. And while no one's chances of succeeding are 1, the startup case is closer to the height example than to rolling dice. Someone like the young Bill Gates would have a much higher probability of succeeding than a person selected at random.)

More convincing evidence of this (and evidence that this analogy applies to the case of startups) would be to compare the probability of someone who has already succeeded at a startup working on a new startup versus someone who has never worked at a startup before or has failed in their previous attempts. Can you share that data?

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#84

Post by tptacek »

the_watcher wrote: post #82
tptacek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define a target (say, 1MM), a realistic interest rate, and head over to any compounding growth goal calculator; it'll tell you how much you need to set aside over 10-15 years to hit that target. To compare meaningfully to startup careers, you need to factor in the premium you pay to work at a startup (in reduced wages) and the very low odds of any given startup making its employee equity liquid. Generally, the differ…

It all depends on the startup. Don't go work for a startup just because it's a startup. You're better off at BigCo. But if you really believe in the startup, and they'll give you meaningful equity and compensation that is enough for your lifestyle, and you want the responsibility, I'd lean towards the startup. Again, the key here is that you really believe in the startup. There aren't many that you can honestly say t…

What's "meaningful equity"? 1% of 0 is the same as 50% of 0.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#85

Post by nostrademons »

chacham15 wrote: post #83
pg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends how good you are. If you're very good, you have better expected value working for yourself than averaging your work together with a bunch of other people. If not you're better off working for someone else. (You're making a common statistical mistake here. You're concluding that because 1/x startups succeed, the odds of each person's startup succeeding is 1/x. You can see this clearly if you ask what the proba…

> (You're making a common statistical mistake here. You're concluding that because 1/x startups succeed, the odds of each person's startup succeeding is 1/x. You can see this clearly if you ask what the probability is that someone is over 6 feet tall. Although 1/x people are, the probability for each person is either 1 or 0. And while no one's chances of succeeding are 1, the startup case is closer to the height exam…

This data's been collected across the VC industry:

http://www.vcconfidential.com/2009/02/josh-lerner-on-serial-...

Among VC-backed entrepreneurs, 34 percent of successful entrepreneurs succeed in their next venture, as compared to 23 percent of failed entrepreneurs and 22 percent of first-time entrepreneurs. This would suggest that yes, there is something about the entrepreneur that influences success, but it only improves your odds by about 50%.

(Note that there are a number of confounding factors in the study, like it only looking at VC-funded entrepreneurs - total success rates are likely much lower, since very few prospective founders get funding - and that repeat entrepreneurs have many external advantages like better access to funding, a name in the press, a better reputation for recruiting, and a pre-existing network.)

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#86

Post by phamilton »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #44
ivv wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joining, not launching, a start-up is what the article's author is actually comparing to a corp job: "Should I join Microsoft or a startup?" Financially and over the long term, a stable well-paid job early in one's career combined with low expenses (no kids, no mortgage, often no car and cheap health insurance) results in a larger lump of money accruing compound interest over a longer period of time.

a stable well-paid job early in one's career combined with low expenses (no kids, no mortgage, often no car and cheap health insurance) results in a larger lump of money accruing compound interest over a longer period of time. And yet you won't get rich. The chances of getting rich as an employee of a startup are admittedly small, but nonzero.

It is not unheard of for a senior engineer at say Netflix to earn 250k/year.

Assuming they live the same lifestyle as others working for a startup, they can easily bank 50k year after taxes. 15 years of that with even conservative growth and I would say you meet my definition of rich.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#87

Post by the_watcher »

tptacek wrote: post #84
the_watcher wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on the startup. Don't go work for a startup just because it's a startup. You're better off at BigCo. But if you really believe in the startup, and they'll give you meaningful equity and compensation that is enough for your lifestyle, and you want the responsibility, I'd lean towards the startup. Again, the key here is that you really believe in the startup. There aren't many that you can honestly say t…

What's "meaningful equity"? 1% of 0 is the same as 50% of 0.

That's part of my point. My main point is that you should only do a startup if you truly believe in it (and you should realistically assess this before accepting, as hard as it may be). I think the biggest point of these articles is "don't join a startup for joining a startup's sake." That said, I like to think joining Dropbox or Google while a student and they are startups would have made sense (even discounting hindsight being 20/20, sorry for using these two, but they were the best examples I could come up with) if you were an avid user of either or had the opportunity to meet Larry/Sergey. Meaningful equity to me is enough that if it hits, you at least have enough money to spend a few years doing what you want. My main point is, there are some startups worth joining. But don't join a startup because working at a startup is "better."

I personally love working at the startup I work at, although we are later stage and moving out of the startup phase (I get paid market, and have solid insurance).

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