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Google is defragging Android

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google is defragging Android

#81

Post by jayd16 »

kevingadd wrote: post #31
habosa wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where has this changed? Google's apps are still built on top of the SDK. The only real change was the centralization of Google Play Services, but that doesn't change the level of OS access at all and 3rd-party developers can still tap in to these services.

Play Services having a custom updater and the ability to silently gain more permissions is definitely not something available to average 3rd party developers.

Are you sure this is correct? How is this even possible when you can install Play Services on Android versions before Play Services was even conceived. How can you do this on custom AOSP builds?

Play Services must be playing by the same rules as everyone else or it just wouldn't work on as many devices as it does.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#82

Post by mambodog »

spion wrote: post #34

As always, everyone forgets to mention the poor, slow and by now outdated Android WebView - which by the way will finally be getting a very important upgrade in the form of WebViewFactory. This may allow using alternative WebViews, such as a chromium-based webview - another important step towards defragmentation. Some more info is available at http://danosipov.com/?p=572

Having written a mobile app framework targeting both UIWebView (iOS) and WebView, and several apps with a single codebase for both platforms, this can't come soon enough. The current Android-Browser-based WebView uses a disgustingly out of date WebKit release, while the iOS UIWebView is basically the current Mobile Safari version with a few features disabled.

The sad state of WebView is the biggest cause of difficulty writing cross platform HTML5/JS apps, even more so than device hardware fragmentation.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#83

Post by esolyt »

engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

Yes, downvotes don't change the truth of the observation because it was never true. Your observation is unfortunately based on a typical fallacy.

Android has always been, and still is meaningfully open. Google apps are closed source and proprietary. You don't have to use Google services and Google apps.

Almost every single Android app in the Play Store (including the Play Store itself) has always been closed source and proprietary. Nothing really changed. Apps that are related to core functionality are open source and free software. Stock dialer, stock browser etc. are all such examples.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#84

Post by acjohnson55 »

e12e wrote: post #73
wpietri wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't Play. It's that people are being bound more tightly to the ecosystem. As a developer, one of the things that was more appealing to me about Android was that Android seemed to be a more level playing field. But this approach tilts things substantially in favor of Google. In particular, this solves fragmentation for Google, and maybe for Google trusted partners, but it doesn't seem to do so for any ot…

I don't see any reason why the play app shouldn't be Free software. So, while I might be a minority, I'd certainly like to see all of it opened up. I'd much prefer a reality where the play service and app is open, and which upstream source you trust is defined by which certificates you trust, and nothing else. That'd make it trivial to set up trusted sources for a company, for example.

They tried that before, and we got fragmentation. Play Services is supposed to be the solution to that. I think it very well might be a huge improvement.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#85

Post by wtracy »

laureny wrote: post #67
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

Nonsense. You can certainly argue that "less" of Android is being open sourced than a few years ago, but it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of the other mobile OS available on the market. Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source. Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy, they will always find a reason why the flavor of open source that a company or an organization picked is not the…

> it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of > the other mobile OS available on the market.

Symbian? OpenMoko? The upcoming SailfishOS, Tizen, Firefox OS, and Ubuntu phone? Oh, you meant in the U.S., I guess. (Yes, I know that all the above have either already largely failed or have sketchy futures. That's an entirely different kettle of fish.)

> Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy

All I want is the ability to make arbitrary changes to the software running on my phone. Why is that so hard?

Re: Google is defragging Android

#86

Post by macspoofing »

engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

It's not quite as bad, but close. Open-source Android is a full-stack operating system, the problem is that as far as everyone is concerned, that's not enough. You need an ecosystem of apps and services (from maps, to push, to youtube, to .. ) to have a competitive mobile platform.

If I was a betting man, I would go long on Google.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#87

Post by azakai »

jayd16 wrote: post #78
engrenage wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything in play services is most certainly not Application level. I presume you didn't read the linked article or the other comments here about the APIs that are migrating there.

Isn't GooglePlayServices by definition app level? My understanding is it runs in app space. Any other developer could accomplish the same thing.

The article clearly states that new platform APIs are showing up in Google Play services instead of in core Android. The article mentions this as a benefit - 3rd party app developers get access to new APIs quickly and consistently across all Android devices.

The downside is the new APIs are showing up in the closed-source Google Play services, and not in the open source Android project.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#88

Post by wtracy »

gbl08ma wrote: post #14
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

I too thought about OSX and Darwin when I saw this. Except that before, with Android, you had an open userland system on an open kernel. Now you have a huge binary blob that can do everything without control, on top of a open userland with an open kernel. It's a closed layer on top of two open layers. And the best of all, more and more things seem to depend on the closed layer instead of just on the other two. From w…

"I think the plan is probably to take everything related to UX into the closed part, that Samsung, HTC and etc. won't then be able to change to create their own UX,"

I doubt it. The manufacturers would revolt at that point, and potentially fork the entire platform.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#89

Post by acjohnson55 »

querulous wrote: post #43

i think this will ultimately prove to be a terrible move for google. android's success is largely a function of how attractive it is to device manufacturers and carriers. stripping control from them is going to force them into a corner where forking android or moving to another platform (amazon's fork of android, firefox os, windows phone 8 and ubuntu mobile are all potentially technically competitive even if they ar…

I don't see what the issue is. It seems to me that the OEMs are still perfectly able to build their own skins and bundle their own apps. They just can't let their recently released devices rot with outdated tech.

Not to mention that if OEMs completely leave Android, they lose the app ecosystem. Having already launched an Android app store was a big boost to for the Kindle Fire. Not many other companies can pull that off though.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#90

Post by arikrak »

engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

I never really got why they kept so much of Android open-source. It didn't seem to make sense both from Google's business perspective and from the user's end. Why does Google need to let companies like Amazon create competing platforms using their operating system? And why do they need to be so beholden to the OEMs? It makes sense they're moving more functionality away from it.

(See my question here: http://www.quora.com/Why-did-Google-make-Android-open-source )

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