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UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

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Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#81

Post by cle »

I can only interpret this as a power grab. This is not a sensible solution, it's an opportunistic solution.

I think many people in modern society don't understand the power of data. The NSA scandal has shown how much people underestimate the power companies can have when they own everyone's data. And similarly, they underestimate the power that a government can have when it owns everyone's data.

We need to do a better job of showing the lay person how much they're underestimating the value of their data, and how much power the data aggregators have.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#82

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

DanBC wrote: post #44
InclinedPlane wrote: post #23

This deserves a lot more of a response but for now I'll just leave this: Liberty is about the ability of the individual to do things that others disapprove of. You don't need liberty if everyone else approves of your actions. As a corollary, the exercise of liberty does not require a justification, because it's a liberty, practicality or "usefulness" or what-have-you play no part in it. It's onerous to require someon…

> People often dismiss out of hand the notion that tyranny could possibly take hold over the first world democracies of the west in the 21st century. And to that I can only sigh. Perhaps it will not be known as tyranny, perhaps someone will come up with a different, more apt name once, if, we are in the clutches of it, but it will be every bit as bad and every bit as difficult to throw off, if not more so. Jesus fuck…

Where is your threshold that marks the point where the exercise of gov't authority becomes tyrannical?

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#83

Post by nly »

Anyone know if Tim Berners-Lee has come out to say anything about this?

I believe he's expressed views in favour of net neutrality and against censorship in the past. With his participation in the Olympic ceremony perhaps, if he were to get in the news, the public would pay some attention.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#84

Post by cdjk »

vidarh wrote: post #35
Fuxy wrote: post #19

There's no feasible way of blocking circumvention tools without causing massive collateral damage. If they block SSH tunnels for instance no sysadmin will be able to do their job. Same for VPN. A lot of people work remotely. I will laugh my ass off if they try to do that. At the same time I won't be able to access my VPS anymore :(

I don't think they care about it enough to want to go even that far, unless VPNs become totally mainstream. But you can tunnel encrypted data over anything that can carry a signal, and stuff IP datagrams inside it. This will only stop people that are "casually" looking for stuff and don't really care. Latency might suck. But if the filters become a problem, you'll start seeing VPN applications with "UK filter modes"…

You can do IP over DNS today:

http://code.kryo.se/iodine/

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#86

Post by diminoten »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #77
diminoten wrote: post #64

The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. $5/month VPN subscriptions will come with routers, pre-configured.

This is very, very wrongheaded. The internet as a transmission protocol is robust and redundant. And if it were used as a sort of replacement for the telephone system then that would be enough. But the architecture of the way the internet is today used in practice is far more centralized. If the web worked the way bittorrent does then perhaps your comment would be accurate, but it doesn't, so we have a "web" that is…

Say that to thepiratebay.

This legislation isn't about shutting down porn websites, it's about blocking their access at the ISP level. This censorship is circumventable by using a VPN or other such technology. Censorship -> damage, Internet -> routes around damage.

This has nothing to do with cutting off a website from being accessible by removing it from the Internet.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#87

Post by tomhschmidt »

markbao wrote: post #65

The terrifying reality of censorship, as told through the lens of that of China: "I knew of some Chinese migrants to Australia who watched a Tiananmen 10-year anniversary documentary, and apparently tears just streamed down their faces. They had no clue that it ever happened ."

Uhhh maybe they came from a Tier 3 city or something. Most Chinese I have talked to know about Tiananmen

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#88

Post by chmodd »

DanBC wrote: post #44
InclinedPlane wrote: post #23

This deserves a lot more of a response but for now I'll just leave this: Liberty is about the ability of the individual to do things that others disapprove of. You don't need liberty if everyone else approves of your actions. As a corollary, the exercise of liberty does not require a justification, because it's a liberty, practicality or "usefulness" or what-have-you play no part in it. It's onerous to require someon…

> People often dismiss out of hand the notion that tyranny could possibly take hold over the first world democracies of the west in the 21st century. And to that I can only sigh. Perhaps it will not be known as tyranny, perhaps someone will come up with a different, more apt name once, if, we are in the clutches of it, but it will be every bit as bad and every bit as difficult to throw off, if not more so. Jesus fuck…

> governments who murder and torture their citizens.

What about governments that murder and torture citizens of other countries? The number of Iraqi and Afghani civilians killed by the US is pretty high - this fact alone is enough to make the US one of the worst human rights offenders in the world.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#89

Post by InclinedPlane »

diminoten wrote: post #86
InclinedPlane wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very, very wrongheaded. The internet as a transmission protocol is robust and redundant. And if it were used as a sort of replacement for the telephone system then that would be enough. But the architecture of the way the internet is today used in practice is far more centralized. If the web worked the way bittorrent does then perhaps your comment would be accurate, but it doesn't, so we have a "web" that is…

Say that to thepiratebay. This legislation isn't about shutting down porn websites, it's about blocking their access at the ISP level. This censorship is circumventable by using a VPN or other such technology. Censorship -> damage, Internet -> routes around damage. This has nothing to do with cutting off a website from being accessible by removing it from the Internet.

That's an illustration of just how difficult it can be to try to operate a website with the governments of the G8 out to get you. It's something that requires extraordinary efforts for TPB and only works because it's a meta site, if they had to seed every tracker they index they would have died long ago. Moreover, because of the nature of their site and the demographic it's used by it's trivial for them to slap ads on the site and make a lot of money, no matter what.

Compare that to, say, a reporter's personal blog and videos, for example. Especially if they have a family they are going to be much less able to pull the sorts of hijinx that TPB manages. When they're shut down once they will stay shut down and they will more than likely just keep their head down from then on.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#90

Post by Oculus »

markbao wrote: post #65

The terrifying reality of censorship, as told through the lens of that of China: "I knew of some Chinese migrants to Australia who watched a Tiananmen 10-year anniversary documentary, and apparently tears just streamed down their faces. They had no clue that it ever happened ."

That thought just gave me goosebumps all over my arm.
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