Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
81–90 of 113 posts
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe it is materially more difficult than the NFC rollout. In fact, I believe it would be far easier than NFC if the financial industry would actually get behind it enthusiastically. I'm curious, what other undertakings do you think are impossible? WiFi? Bluetooth? GSM?
NFC isn't even close to completion, who knows when, if it ever will, get there. What you are missing is the massive infrastructure investment in retail terminals. There are millions of these things out there and they just work. The cost-benefit ratio of a scheme like yours just falls apart in the face of all that inertia.
> NFC isn't even close to completion
And yet it is progressing. See Europe. This despite lackluster support from big banks.
> What you are missing is the massive infrastructure investment in retail terminals.
No, I'm not. Not at all. I'm well aware of it. I'm also well aware that they get replaced quite frequently. And virtually every retail terminal I've seen in the last few years is new enough that if the banks had started the push for a smartcard technology when it initially became viable, terminal compatibility would be near 100%.
Did you think there had to be some magic cutover date? There doesn't. Hybrid cards can be used for 5, 10, even 20 years if necessary, with gradual pressure applied to retailers to adopt new equipment they haven't already replaced (or received new, stores come and go) through a reduction in fees for transactions completed via smartcard.
The point is to make actual progress and eventually arrive at a reasonable destination. Right now, we're just sitting on our hands.
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect that most people who commit copyright infringement are not credit card thieves. However, I don't like drawing conclusions without evidence, and I don't think it should be considered naive to ask for evidence before making up one's mind. In fact, I'd consider it extremely foolish to do otherwise.
Well you did draw the conclusion that it was a "bold claim" without evidence... The phrase "bold claim" is usually reserved for cases where the claim seems unlikely.
Claiming that VPNs have more people signing up with stolen credit cards than their own credit cards rather unlikely to me. The penalty fees on the resulting chargeback would make it difficult to make a profit, particularly on a service that competes on price in an increasingly crowded marketplace.
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't paying through a VPN a rather different matter to paying for a VPN? I mean, there's no point to using a privacy VPN to hide your identity only to then give out your credit card details, so it sounds like an inherently biased scenario.
If you are going to use a VPN to charge stolen credit cards, you sure aren't going to use a real credit card to purchase the VPN service, which could then be linked back to you.
That's true, but I don't see how that relates to the point.
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#85I guess that means they work, which is one good thing to come out of this (assuming some are still left).
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you elaborate on some of those techniques? Plenty of people are reluctant to use credit cards online for the fear that they might get stolen.
Picture, for example, a card which has a small OLED display which displays an amount and a merchant name. You press a little button on the card, and an authorization is generated, cryptographically signed with an embedded key, and sent to the card reader (which also provides the power for the card). Such a reader can be built into laptops, keyboards, smartphones, available as small stand-alone USB devices, etc.. Web…
I have a bank card that can be attached to a device, and transactions (internet banking) can be signed with it.
The device is not connected to the computer, rather, you have to type some info (like value of the transaction) and it generates a code you type back in the website
For this device to work you need to type the card pin
Of course this wouldn't work in the US since they're still stuck with the magstripe
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you are going to use a VPN to charge stolen credit cards, you sure aren't going to use a real credit card to purchase the VPN service, which could then be linked back to you.
That's true, but I don't see how that relates to the point.
Well I imagine it might go something like this:
Bad guy gets CC details
Uses stolen CC to sign up to VPN
Goes on a shopping spree via the VPN so law enforcement can't trace him
So you're going to see more use of VPNs by fraudsters trying to hide than you are genuine users... hence the ban.
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As there is nothing remotely illegal or even nefarious about using a VPN There's a reason every risk scoring tool for e-commerce highly weighs whether the connection is from a VPN or other type of proxy. Using a VPN is not illegal or nefarious, but public anonymizing VPNs (as opposed to private VPN-into-the-company-network VPNs) are used for illegal and nefarious purposes to a huge degree. The volume of fraud occur…
It sounds to me like you're confusing two very different things - paying for a VPN for the sake of privacy confused with using a vpn to make purchases.
Yes, but might the people using VPNs to make fraudulent purchases not use fraudulent details to buy the VPN in the first place?
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's true, but I don't see how that relates to the point.
Well I imagine it might go something like this: Bad guy gets CC details Uses stolen CC to sign up to VPN Goes on a shopping spree via the VPN so law enforcement can't trace him So you're going to see more use of VPNs by fraudsters trying to hide than you are genuine users... hence the ban.
I agree that some users use VPNs for credit card fraud. What I find hard to believe is that the majority of VPN users are committing credit card fraud. If nothing else, it would be difficult for VPNs to make a profit if they had that many chargebacks.
Re: Mastercard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers
#90Keep in mind that this is about chargeback risk, not implementing some secret government policy. "Anonymizing VPNs" are a high risk service -- the people signing up for them are more often "bad guys" than tech professionals looking for privacy -- and they're signing up with stolen payment information. There are far more hackers, crackers, carders, "script kiddies", spammers and other people that need to hide their lo…
> Keep in mind that this is about chargeback risk, First, I do not think this is about chargebacks, at all. I don't know what it is about, but it's not chargebacks. This looks like a blanket revocation of anonymizing/VPN services. That isn't how fraud/risk engines work (note: I wrote several fraud/risk engines for ecommerce/banking/travel industry as well as passive device fingerprinting). Sure, make this a riskier t…
> I can't think of a single thing that is legal to buy that is blanket revoked by some company like this.
Firearms.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/helpcenter/article/?solutionI...
https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/about?nodeId=6023
https://squareup.com/legal/seller-agreement
Also, at least two of those have prohibitions on "occult materials". I'm not quite sure what that means, but it doesn't sound illegal.