Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans • Hacker News Board

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#81

Post by adventured » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:23 AM UTC

xiphias wrote: post #62

javert wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your suggestion for "doing something?" I can't help that most Americans are wrongly educated about thinks like civil rights.

Get away from the USD that American government is using to keep it's power. Get away from the banking system. Buy physical silver, gold (not ETF) or bitcoins. The earlier everybody starts doing it the sooner the inevitable USD crash will happen.

The USD implosion will bring down the US Government, and it will end the unsustainable spending spree that pays for our expanding police state (and the NSA's Utah datacenter).

There isn't much time left on the clock. I'd say the Fed has less than 12 to 24 months before the next disaster hits, given the way the real estate and stock market bubbles have already been re-inflated. They won't be able to control rates much longer without losing control on the inflation wave flowing into housing and commodities (eg with oil now being 'normal' at $90). The next crash, which is inevitable, will be back breaking. It'll require the Feds to choose between over-funding the military and police state, or paying for social security and similar services.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#82

Post by digitalengineer » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:24 AM UTC

Dutch person here with a little insight what's to come for you guys. Some information about our tiny little country (in Wester Europe, very pro-US) with just 17 million people.

Our government listens in on more calls every year than in the whole of the US combined. All our telecommunications providers are forced to have the capability to intercept all traffic (phone and internet). Encrypted data must be stored for an unlimited time to facilitate possible decryption in the future. Our 'Team Digital Expertise' developed software that profiles social networks on which a suspect operates to use it in order to gather crime-related information.

Our police buys TomTom software-data to see when and where they can get the maximum amount of money if they photograph speeding drivers. (Safety is not their first concern, money is). Local and national police now use drones. The army is training how to spy on it's own civilians.

Our 'Camera Surveillance Act' allows images to be retained for up to four weeks and also facilitates the use of cameras for law enforcement purposes, whereas before the main purpose of camera surveillance was keeping public order. They're working on a pay-per-mile car tax system but activating it stopped when it turned out they were collecting more (personal) data than was technically needed to run the system and using the data for purposes other than those for which was collected. Every important road is viewed by camera's with license-plate scanning software. You can travel by public transport but a special card with chip and login/logout is required. You can purchase one without your name and address but you can only add money to it using your bank-account. The system tracks all travelers' movements (departure and end points for each leg of every journey), in most cases combined with the traveler's identity. It retains the data for seven years.

Our Dutch passport contains both fingerprints, facial recognition and RIFD. Every large city center is equipped with camera's with powerful microphones. Our Minister of the Interior announced plans to also store the biometric data in a central database. Dutch hotels are breaking data protection laws by photocopying guests' passports and identification cards because they are required by our government to do so.

The 'Electronic child file' records a child's development and environmental indicators from birth. Teachers are forced to build a profile of every child in their class along with a description of his/her family's situation. It received local media coverage when it turned out doctors are even recording when a child starts getting pubic hair. The government is also actively building a electronic patient file, containing all medical details of every person. Because of the workload they have asked insurance companies to help building this. (That got a lot of people's attention).

Privacy? There is no such thing.

Source: https://www.privacyinternational.org/reports/netherlands

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#83

Post by snoshy » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:24 AM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #72

I hate to use this tone but, so be it. Maybe now you morons who continue to vote in the pieces of shit into our government who are bent on taking more and more power for themselves will wake up and figure it out? How much more proof do you need? Does this make you angry yet or is Obama still your diety? Oh, and Republicans don't get a pass either. The point is that all of you morons voting like robots along party lin…

Sadly, you forgot the most important factor in all of this: money. Vote with your wallet. Far more important and influential than voting once in 4 years.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#84

Post by dirktheman » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:27 AM UTC

coenhyde wrote: post #61

adventured wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute easiest thing? Outrage + phone calls / letters. It would take a mere 1% of the US population to give a shit, and it would light D.C. up like a Christmas tree. Bury their phones and inboxes in just a few hundred thousand calls and emails per day and every member of Congress would instantly stand to attention and respond positive. It's such a trivial % of the overall population as to be disgusting that it…

Indeed. Nothing is going to change until there is a collapse. Even then I fear what fills the power void will be worse than what you have now. The reason no one cares is because most Americans are in a comatose state. I've traveled to most US cities and some places in between and it continues to shock me just how stupid the average american is. They're drugged out on corn syrup, anti-depressants, street drugs and see…

That's the thing with the "average American" (or in my case, the "average Dutchman"). For every intelligent, free-thinking mind on HN there's a bunch of morons dragging the average down!

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#85

Post by worldsayshi » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:31 AM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #72

I hate to use this tone but, so be it. Maybe now you morons who continue to vote in the pieces of shit into our government who are bent on taking more and more power for themselves will wake up and figure it out? How much more proof do you need? Does this make you angry yet or is Obama still your diety? Oh, and Republicans don't get a pass either. The point is that all of you morons voting like robots along party lin…

As a non american, my theory about why your state is allow to abuse it's power to such a degree is that your democratic system disincentivize multiple parties and so a fair competition. I understand that the ruling party is the one with the largest share of votes rather than whatever group of parties who can agree to work with each other comprising the majority of the votes. You should need 50% of the votes to rule. That means making compromises with minority parties. Compromises is a good thing in the political sphere, not something to avoid. And it incentivizes voting on small parties. It may lead to some bad apples but at least you have slightly better environment for competition.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#86

Post by CamperBob2 » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:34 AM UTC

staccatomeasure wrote: post #33

javert wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any way to fight it now. What are your suggestions? If we were to have a revolution here, even in a decade or two, we'd probably end up with something much worse than what we have now.

Have Congress pass laws to make such surveillance illegal. Stop using Verizon or any other carrier that complies (economic protest). Only use technologies that don't permit such spying. Pass state legislation that is counter to the federal mandate and create an uproar that way. The list goes on. We're stil a democracy and when it comes down to it we're still a democracy that gives a lot of power to any one senator. I…

Have Congress pass laws to make such surveillance illegal.

Arguably it already is.

Nobody cares.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#87

Post by Trufa » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:35 AM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #72

I hate to use this tone but, so be it. Maybe now you morons who continue to vote in the pieces of shit into our government who are bent on taking more and more power for themselves will wake up and figure it out? How much more proof do you need? Does this make you angry yet or is Obama still your diety? Oh, and Republicans don't get a pass either. The point is that all of you morons voting like robots along party lin…

I am not American, so I am not an as immersed in your politics as many of you so take it with a grain of salt but this is my opinion.

Obama is about the most dangerous thing that could have happened to your government. Why?

In most of the world outside from the US, after Bush's second term, you simply couldn't defend him. My family tends to be very pro USA (blindly), but with Bush, it got to the point that it was not "politically correct" any more to defend him, just about anybody criticized him.

But then comes Obama, likable and with a promise to make things better, everybody likes him, and in between promises and small steps forwards, he/his goverment/others/whoever slip in huge blows to human rights, privacy and freedom.

In my eyes, Obama is Bush with better PR.

And why is this dangerous, because with bush at least most people knew they wanted better, and now for most, this is good enough or even good, and it's not.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#88

Post by austenallred » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:37 AM UTC

newman314 wrote: post #79

austenallred wrote: post #55

A lot of comments in this thread area calling for the head of Verizon and recommending boycotts, but for how much of this is Verizon really at fault? If the NSA comes knocking and tells you to turn over X, you can't exactly say "no", can you? More to the point, it's highly unlikely that this is an issue unique to Verizon; it's just the only one we've heard about so far.

So roll over and take it like a champ? If everyone thought this way, there would have been no revolution. At some point, enough is enough and I say that that point is way past.

I don't know what the solution is, but I doubt it's "switch my service provider to AT&T."

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#89

Post by LatvjuAvs » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:38 AM UTC

digitalengineer wrote: post #82

Dutch person here with a little insight what's to come for you guys. Some information about our tiny little country (in Wester Europe, very pro-US) with just 17 million people. Our government listens in on more calls every year than in the whole of the US combined. All our telecommunications providers are forced to have the capability to intercept all traffic (phone and internet). Encrypted data must be stored for an…

1984 could not come soon enough :D

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#90

Post by dirktheman » Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 7:39 AM UTC

digitalengineer wrote: post #82

Dutch person here with a little insight what's to come for you guys. Some information about our tiny little country (in Wester Europe, very pro-US) with just 17 million people. Our government listens in on more calls every year than in the whole of the US combined. All our telecommunications providers are forced to have the capability to intercept all traffic (phone and internet). Encrypted data must be stored for an…

Fellow Dutchman here, and I couldn't agree more. I actually helped building the electronic patient file in two major hospitals, and I can't tell you enough about the massive clusterfuck that is. The government requires you to finish it before a certain date, only they provide you with the exact requirements after that date. Basic security measures like encrypting data? No way!

To me, America is still the land of the slightly more free and little more brave!