I'm sure we can all pick this apart and talk about all the bad decisions she's made. The fact that she'd allow an article to be written about her regarding this just shows that she's certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed. The only thing I would ask is if she's not going to pay for her education, go ahead and take down that law degree that your private practice is established on and find some other kind of work. I know it sounds ridiculous, but so does her whole story. Not going to pay for it? Don't use it. You can't have it both ways.
Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
81–90 of 91 posts
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a corporation would not hesitate for a second, on moral grounds, to restructure its debts through bankruptcy, and neither should individuals. I see what you're saying, but I really dislike that way of thinking, because it's justifying something bad by saying "That's what others are doing" That's like saying that because BP are spilling oil into the oceans and getting away with it, you shouldn't stop doing it yourse…
You're begging the question. Spilling oil into the oceans inherently hurts people and the environment in an uncompensated way. Bankruptcy, meanwhile, is just part of the rules of the game, just as much as enforceable debt obligations are part of the rules of the game. Everyone knows, a priori that repayment obligations can be enforced by recourse to the courts, and everyone also knows, a priori, that those obligation…
Isn't that also known as "ruthless default"? :)
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Twins are unexpected, but surely they knew at least one child will be born? Even one extra is a huge commitment when you don't have the means.
Read the quote carefully. IMO it is not saying that the pregnancy was a surprise, but that twins was a surprise.
Which is exactly my point.
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wasn't until 1991 that student loan debt was no longer dischargeable through bankruptcy. So, although unlikely, she may have based her decision on the possibility that, worse case scenario, she could have declared bankruptcy. Now the $20,000 personal loan for living expenses, I assume would still be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
I read the article as her using student loans to cover living expenses. Which made sense at the time, since it was being subsidized.
I have a hard time believing she could obtain a student loan without any further classes to attend, that is why I assume it is a private loan.
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a corporation would not hesitate for a second, on moral grounds, to restructure its debts through bankruptcy, and neither should individuals. I see what you're saying, but I really dislike that way of thinking, because it's justifying something bad by saying "That's what others are doing" That's like saying that because BP are spilling oil into the oceans and getting away with it, you shouldn't stop doing it yourse…
You're begging the question. Spilling oil into the oceans inherently hurts people and the environment in an uncompensated way. Bankruptcy, meanwhile, is just part of the rules of the game, just as much as enforceable debt obligations are part of the rules of the game. Everyone knows, a priori that repayment obligations can be enforced by recourse to the courts, and everyone also knows, a priori, that those obligation…
But by your own words, this woman's bankruptcy does hurt other people... the people looking to get a loan later. They are now paying the even higher interest rate due to her bankruptcy being priced in. The more people that default, the higher the probability that the next person will default and the higher the premium the bank charges for that risk.
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're begging the question. Spilling oil into the oceans inherently hurts people and the environment in an uncompensated way. Bankruptcy, meanwhile, is just part of the rules of the game, just as much as enforceable debt obligations are part of the rules of the game. Everyone knows, a priori that repayment obligations can be enforced by recourse to the courts, and everyone also knows, a priori, that those obligation…
But by your own words, this woman's bankruptcy does hurt other people... the people looking to get a loan later. They are now paying the even higher interest rate due to her bankruptcy being priced in. The more people that default, the higher the probability that the next person will default and the higher the premium the bank charges for that risk.
The rates for subsequent borrowers will only go up if her bankruptcy was unexpected. That is to say, if the bank charged her interest assuming 10 of 100 loans would default, and she is one of those 10, then her bankruptcy does not change the interest rate the bank charges. On the other hand, if the default rate is higher than the bank expected, whose fault is that?
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your primary moral duty is to repay debt, eh? Unimportant things like "giving your life meaning" are unimportant.
As a consumer your only duty is to obey they law. However, moral duty is relevant when it comes to how society should think about debt. Everyone has things they would like to do if they had more money. Society should not be arranged to give people a free pass just because they want to do something that requires money.
> Society should not be arranged to give people a free pass just because they want to do something that requires money.
Why not?
I mean, if it works for that society and it's democratically passed, why shouldn't a society do whatever it wants?
Use of the word 'should' makes it sound like there's a moral imperative for us to not help each other. I don't think that's the case, and I think there's a good argument that in future we'll need to consider different types of society that deal with abundance rather than scarcity; for example, with universal living wages.
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
But by your own words, this woman's bankruptcy does hurt other people... the people looking to get a loan later. They are now paying the even higher interest rate due to her bankruptcy being priced in. The more people that default, the higher the probability that the next person will default and the higher the premium the bank charges for that risk.
The rates for subsequent borrowers will only go up if her bankruptcy was unexpected. That is to say, if the bank charged her interest assuming 10 of 100 loans would default, and she is one of those 10, then her bankruptcy does not change the interest rate the bank charges. On the other hand, if the default rate is higher than the bank expected, whose fault is that?
They can only do so much to predict the future based on the past. When they fund loans today based on today's default rate they have no way to know what crisis hits in 3 years to cause a spike in defaulted loans. The system must correct itself with enough padding to cover the smaller fluctuations.
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a consumer your only duty is to obey they law. However, moral duty is relevant when it comes to how society should think about debt. Everyone has things they would like to do if they had more money. Society should not be arranged to give people a free pass just because they want to do something that requires money.
> Society should not be arranged to give people a free pass just because they want to do something that requires money. Why not? I mean, if it works for that society and it's democratically passed, why shouldn't a society do whatever it wants? Use of the word 'should' makes it sound like there's a moral imperative for us to not help each other. I don't think that's the case, and I think there's a good argument that i…
What I meant was that the amount of wealth redistribution would be a function of your income, not the fact that you really need more money to do a particular thing.
So if I decide it would be really life assuming to quit my job and become an artist, society doesn't have more duty to help me do this than they do to help anyone else on a particular income.
Re: Giving Up Paying Off $186,000 Student Loan Debt
#90This is a pretty fluffy article. It says she borrowed $26k/year during law school, even though she was on a scholarship with tuition paid, and took out another $20k in private loans. Hard to judge anything just based on this article, but I'd have to say that if you have a full tuition scholarship and still need to take on 100k in debt you might want to rethink it. Also she had 3 children within 3 years of graduating,…
If you want to raise a family and work for the state, don't take on the debt, your life will be easier. If you have Federal Loans and hold a public service job for ten years (and make your payments of I believe 10% of your gross income), your remaining debt is forgiven. The same is true after 25 years if you aren't in public service I believe and I think Obama just railroaded a change to make that 15 years using Exec…
Wow, I wasn't aware of this at all. Luckily I don't happen to have any student loans, as I was lucky to have parents who could afford my tuition and did some part time work. Of course, I went to a state school and my maximum tuition cost for a semester was I think $1800 at the time.