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Where Is .Net Headed?

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Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#81

Post by recoiledsnake »

coldtea wrote: post #80
recoiledsnake wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So, they made in a year something around what Apple makes every quarter just from iPad sales? That's the rosy sign MS's "Servers and Tools" business is doing OK? That's their server and tools revenue in a quarter, not a year. In your rush to compare it with an irrelevant and totally unrelated figure you've taken leave of facts and reality. Why not compare the yearly figure now with how much Exxon makes by selling ga…

> That's their server and tools revenue in a quarter, not a year. In your rush to compare it with an irrelevant and totally unrelated figure you've taken leave of facts and reality. Haven't taken out any facts -- the parent poster (you?) didn't add it was a quarter result in the first place. And the "X% up from last year" didn't help. That said, it's totally unrelated only in that the end product sold is different. P…

Okay, I agree, Apple and Google rock and Microsoft sucks.

So how is all that related to the article idea's and the OPs point about the FUD on HN about .NET dying? Is .NET dying because Apple makes more money selling iDevices than Microsoft's Dev tools?

Lets be upfront here about the topic being discussed, is it "Where is .NET headed?" or is it "Does MS make less money than its competitors and therefore sucks?"

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#82

Post by cooldeal »

cookiecaper wrote: post #55
jussij wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling. I don't buy that for a minute. The Windows Server division is one of the fastest growing divisions inside of Microsoft. From their last Q3FY13 report revenue from server and tools grew 11% driven by SQL server and Windows Server growth. Based on those figures business is scrambling to buy into…

I don't know if that's a valid extrapolation. I, for one, in all my working years have never met a Linux company that was interested in switching to .NET, but I met many that wanted it the other way around if they could only justify the upfront investment to convert the proprietary application stack. With cross-platform compatibility, specifically mobile compatibility [on platforms people actually use, i.e., not Wind…

>I, for one, in all my working years have never met a Linux company that was interested in switching to .NET, but I met many that wanted it the other way around if they could only justify the upfront investment to convert the proprietary application stack.

Which regions did you work at?

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#83

Post by coldtea »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #81
coldtea wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's their server and tools revenue in a quarter, not a year. In your rush to compare it with an irrelevant and totally unrelated figure you've taken leave of facts and reality. Haven't taken out any facts -- the parent poster (you?) didn't add it was a quarter result in the first place. And the "X% up from last year" didn't help. That said, it's totally unrelated only in that the end product sold is different. P…

Okay, I agree, Apple and Google rock and Microsoft sucks. So how is all that related to the article idea's and the OPs point about the FUD on HN about .NET dying? Is .NET dying because Apple makes more money selling iDevices than Microsoft's Dev tools? Lets be upfront here about the topic being discussed, is it "Where is .NET headed?" or is it "Does MS make less money than its competitors and therefore sucks?"

>Lets be upfront here about the topic being discussed, is it "Where is .NET headed?" or is it "Does MS make less money than its competitors and therefore sucks?"

It's not about sucking or not. It's about if it's as a big player as it used to be, or if the wind got sucked out of it's wings, and now is on decline mode.

Nobody said anything about "sucking" or that it will die financially tomorrow. It might still be around 2 centuries later.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#84

Post by cmircea »

eduardordm wrote: post #25
cooldeal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to buy them: http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/default.aspx Prime example: Stackoverflow/StackExchange is built on the Microsoft stack.

BizSpark has rules many startups cannot follow and is only valid for 3 years. This is the same selling scheme used by drug dealers.

"BizSpark has rules many startups cannot follow"

Please explain. The rules seem pretty simple to me and certainly something every company can follow:

  - Privately held.
  - Less than 3 years old.
  - Earning less than $1 million per year.
  - Developing software.
After 3 years you can afford to purchase extra licenses (you get to keep the BizSpark ones). If not, your business sucks.

Disclaimer: BizSpark member.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#85

Post by cmircea »

cookiecaper wrote: post #74
moron4hire wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it missing that you are missing? Mono is pretty damn complete. The stuff I've found it to be missing are very Windows-centric stuff and wouldn't fit in a Unix environment anyway.

WPF is the replacement of WinForms. Many desktop apps designed by conventional .NET developers in the timeframe between the release of Vista, and probably many now despite MS's deprecation, use WPF as a base library. It's not something you can just easily replace, and Mono does not implement it. Microsoft is using the same business tactics that they've employed since the PC wars in the 90s, since they hit critical ma…

It's not as if WPF was the only way to make UIs for apps.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#86

Post by cmircea »

charlieflowers wrote: post #49
smacktoward wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laugh if you want to, but the point is pretty serious. Azure supposedly racked up more than $1 billion in revenue in 2012 ( http://www.zdnet.com/windows-azure-joins-microsofts-billion-... ). Amazon's AWS, on the other hand, is estimated to have brought in between $1.5 and $2 billion ( http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-deals/2013-03-07-what-if-amazon... , http://www.informationweek.com/cloud-computing/infrastructur... ) du…

I heard this a couple of weeks ago (on Hacker News), and I was SHOCKED! I have worked for years as a .Net consultant, and I had no idea Azure had grown this quickly. A couple of years ago, I thought their entire set of literature was counter-intuitive, and I quit paying attention to them. How on Earth did they grow to be in AWS's league so quickly? Surely just getting the "default Microsoft business" wasn't enough to…

Well they've kept constantly adding major missing parts, which likely added a lot to their market.

One month, web sites, another virtual machines, then Hadoop. Oh, wait, and mobile services. The list goes on; they've catched up with Amazon on offerings more or less.

Oh and let's not forget that Azure support is fucking awesome.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#87

Post by kyllo »

pjmlp wrote: post #66
kyllo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might use the opposite--a JVM implementation of C#--if such a thing existed. A port of Java on the CLR would be useless to me though, because I don't use .NET but if I did, C# has better features than Java as a language.

You cannot do that, because CLR has pointers, value types, unions and proper tail call optimization. So those features are not mappable to the JVM.

So that means C/C++, Obj-C, and ML languages (SML, OCaml, F#) are all impossible to implement on the JVM?

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#88

Post by orangethirty »

bigdubs wrote: post #30
orangethirty wrote: post #16

I've been away from .Net for a while. How has it improved? How is the market for programmers in it? For freelancers?

ASP.net MVC is pretty awesome, there are some good open source projects like Nancy for more lightweight stuff, Entity Framework isn't great but it's pretty mature and fast for an ORM. Visual Studio continues to be the best IDE on the market.

I did some work with ASP.net MVC. Last time I touched it it was a pretty nice framework to use. Thanks for the feedback

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#89

Post by orangethirty »

eduardordm wrote: post #20
cooldeal wrote: post #10

Great, another .NET is dying post voted up on HN. Didn't we have one of those just this morning? Meanwhile, in the real world, Microsoft posted these earnings: "Server & Tools business reported $5.04 billion of revenue, up 11% from last year" Inspite of competing products like Linux, Apache, Eclipse, Ruby, Java being given away for free, people are willing to pay for Windows Server, Visual Studio and IIS. Does anyone…

You couldn't buy the VS licenses + SQL Server + Windows Server with the money YCombinator provides you. So, yes, most microsoft products are incredibly damaging for a startup.

So, yes, most microsoft products are incredibly damaging for a startup.

Not every startup has to work with the small amount YC hands out. I know of a fair amount of startups using an MS stack, and they are doing very well. Of course, they are not SV cool, but they are making good money. You should sit back and analyze what you just said, because it is a pretty strange point to make.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#90

Post by orangethirty »

One point that is somehow missing in this thread, yet is implicitly made is:

Open source is not the solution to every problem.

There are businesses that value the support, packaging, and overall completeness of the .NET stack. Yes, they cost money to deploy, but so do open source alternatives. People will argue that MS will lock you down. Yet, if you start developing under Rails or Django, its pretty hard to move away when things get going.

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