Live data from Hacker News

An acquisition is always a failure

pandodaily.com

81–90 of 119 posts

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#81

No, no, a thousand times no. This is complete bullshit. I'm sorry, but you lost me at: The proper ambition for a tech entrepreneur should be to join the ranks of the great tech companies, or, at least, to create a profitable, independent company beloved by employees, customers, and shareholders. Nobody, not you, not my mom or dad, not "God", not Linus Torvalds, not Bill Gates, not the Queen of England, not the Dali L…

> Nobody, not you, not my mom or dad, not "God", not Linus Torvalds, not Bill Gates, not the Queen of England, not the Dali Lama, not Zoroaster or the Easter Bunny or President Obama or the sterno bum at the corner of 3rd and Main, not Sergey Brin, not Kevin Rose, but NOBODY has any standing to tell me what my "proper ambition is." Why? Because "fuck you", that's why.

This is hands-down my favourite perspective on HN, ever.

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#82

No, no, a thousand times no. This is complete bullshit. I'm sorry, but you lost me at: The proper ambition for a tech entrepreneur should be to join the ranks of the great tech companies, or, at least, to create a profitable, independent company beloved by employees, customers, and shareholders. Nobody, not you, not my mom or dad, not "God", not Linus Torvalds, not Bill Gates, not the Queen of England, not the Dali L…

> The proper ambition for a tech entrepreneur

> NOBODY has any standing to tell me what my "proper ambition is."

Nobody is telling you what YOU should do or not do as a human being; I think the debate is about the meaning of words.

If you buy a piano and proceed to destroy it with a chainsaw, you can certainly do that. But you don't get to call it "playing the piano" or "composing" (although nowadays it may be considered some kind of "art").

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#83

Pretty easy position to take once you've already earned your own "fuck you" money. I do sometimes wonder why these sorts of acquisitions remain so prevalent though when minus a few notable exceptions the life cycle tends to consist of a company paying many millions or even a cool billion for some tech in a stack they don't even use (only to kill it soon after) plus a handful of employees that tend to stick around bar…

Almost all popular Google products (other than search and Gmail) have come from acquisition: Maps, Analytics, Google Apps, Android, Blogger, Picasa, YouTube, Postini, reCAPTCHA, etc. My good friends Robby & Wayne's company, Zenter, was acquired by Google in 2007. While Robby has since left, Wayne is now a very respected eng manager in charge of a very important project, so I would argue that acquisition was successfu…

You're right; some acquisitions survive as real products and it would be a mistake to call them "failures".

I guess what the OP means is that price alone is not a sufficient criteria to judge whether an acquisition was a success. If you sell your company for a large amount of money, but it gets shut down, that's not "success" (although it's certainly much better for you than closing down without any money).

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#85

No, no, a thousand times no. This is complete bullshit. I'm sorry, but you lost me at: The proper ambition for a tech entrepreneur should be to join the ranks of the great tech companies, or, at least, to create a profitable, independent company beloved by employees, customers, and shareholders. Nobody, not you, not my mom or dad, not "God", not Linus Torvalds, not Bill Gates, not the Queen of England, not the Dali L…

Indeed. This whole article seems like it must be an elaborate HN Karma Lottery, where the first person to read the headline then post the above comment will immediately walk away with 300 points.

The conclusion is so obviously false that it doesn't even require saying as much. If somebody ever offers to buy one of my businesses for a price that makes me happy, I'm going to consider that a win.

And I'll let the parent explain to the author exactly where he can place his opinion of me.

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#86
Not every business is as free-form as ones where you luck into a $100k/month business when you're just two college kids. In that scenario of course you can throw as much spaghetti against the wall as you want with total creative freedom. But most startups do not happen to be at exactly the right place at the right time like this, and it's a multi-year slog to creak into profitability, and then several more years of intense focus to actually achieve real success. If you want to cash out early to buy yourself the freedom to work on whatever you want, and you end up getting paid more than 99.999% of the world for your months of hard work, I don't see any way you can call that a failure. Even assuming no element of luck and that Jake is just one of the most naturally talented entrepreneurs alive, I still think expectations need to be re-calibrated here.

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#87
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on your goal. Even companies that stay privately held and turn a profit year over year end up in many ways being a lifestyle company; Often resulting in stagnation and then slowly erode from the inside. It can work, you can avoid stagnation, but only for a few types of companies / founders. For example Valve can pull this off, they are a game company, always building the next great game, they always have s…

My first thought is, you don't have to grow like wildfire. From what I've seen, operations that stay smaller, tend to avoid stagnation. Of course, I suppose keeping your company modestly sized does stand in the way of securing your "cool billion", which is apparently the minimum take for anybody who is anybody?

It really depends on your industry/vertical. It's true, small companies can remain more agile, but they're also far more vulnerable to change - when it's three friends who run a software development shop, and one of them decides they want to strike out on their own, that's a huge upheaval for the organization. Plus, they tend to have a smaller customer base to draw from, or a smaller set of products on offer, all of which increase the long-term vulnerability.

Snark about the "minimum take" aside, everyone has different priorities. If you're a good businessperson with a good idea, there's no reason that you can't bootstrap a small business that makes you $400k/year for a number of years, which I think most people would agree is a pretty decent living.

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#88
First of all, let me say that I hate "acqui-hires" with a passion that could summon Cthulhu. I've taken to calling them "welfare checks" because that's what they are: a socially-closed, elitist private welfare system to keep rich kids (born into the necessary investor and acquirer connections) from actually failing no matter how dogshit-awful their ideas are. Acqui-hires usually benefit founders but screw employees, and should thus be thought of as a "gentleman's C" for shiftless, incompetent, useless rich fucks Playing Startup.

Thaaaaat said, I disagree with "always a failure", at least in the pejorative sense. Let's be realistic, here. Let's first take a page from Eastern religions. Impermanence. Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impermanence

All things change. And die. That doesn't mean they were without value. They contributed, and left a trace. Something that is a ghost or a fragment of a god or a cloud of electricity (depending on whom you ask) carries around a decaying corpse for 100 years. It's absurd! Everything is constantly falling apart, but the universe seems to be get slightly better each day in spite of it. Nothing in the physical world is built to be eternal. That's especially true of businesses, which are generally built to effect one economic change that is initially radical but, once proven, is taken for granted, at which point it's commodity work that will be done better when a more innovative competitor comes along. Circle of life...

I try to live life by the Boy Scout's rule: I win if I leave the place better than I found it. Even though my effects will live on in subtle, chaotic ways, no one's going to remember my name in 500 years. If reincarnation is true, I won't recognize my current name in 500 years. So...

Yes, if you're building a business for "Teh Exit" with the intention of making millions while leaving your colleagues stranded in brain-dead corporate subordinate roles that they'll hate, then you are, in fact, a fucking loser wankbasket and I hope you fail. Build-to-flip scene kids can choke on a taint. But this doesn't describe everyone who starts a business and ends up selling it. Sometimes, the thing generates legitimate value but proves not to have enough upside to justify the entrepreneur's continued full-time commitment... or it just gets into a state where she's no longer the right person to manage it. There are good reasons for good entrepreneurs to sell their businesses.

We shouldn't be looking at the mode of Teh Exit for moral guidance. That's what created this fucked-up, worthless VC-istan so-called "tech" ecosystem in the first place. Sometimes good businesses are acquired and bad ones IPO (which is just another form of acquisition). Instead of boasting or griping about ExitzLulz!!!111!!(10^large-1)/9!!, we should be focusing a return to genuine value creation, no matter what form it takes (and it won't always be a private-sector business). We should get back to Real Technology: solving problems that people actually care about that make peoples' lives better. And we should get back to ridiculing these well-connected (not "empty suit", perhaps "empty hoodie"?) scene kids and their marketing-experiments-called-technology, no matter how they "exit". We should drive those fuckers out of town.

I do think it is fascinating that acq-hires tend to be priced at 40-50 years of salary, given that an employment relationship only lasts 4 years on average. What does it tell us? It tells us that we, as engineers, suck so bad at marketing ourselves and negotiations that an often inconsequential third party (stone soup?) can sell us for a 10x markup. Also, it shows that large companies are ridiculously bad at discovering internal talent. The fact that Yahoo bought 17-year-olds at a panic price just indicates that their middle management filter is so bugfucked that they've given up on discovering talent, internally, at the bottom. If you have to buy a new winter coat for $800 every November, it means you need to get some order in your fucking house so you stop losing track of shit.

By the way, most of "social media" is not that innovative. It's just a wave of marketing experiments that uses technology because almost everything new is technological. Social media are the reality shows of technology. Reality shows aren't prolific because they're good, but because they're cheap (no actor's salaries, no writer fees). Social media startups are so common because they don't require a deep technological understanding, and because well-connected morons can CxO them, so long as they can buy a "scaling expert" at a panic price post-Series-B.

Let's get back to the issues that actually matter. Bashing people just because they get acquired as bad as the tyranny of Those Who Have Completed An Exit (celebrity founders) in fundraising. So let's just stop the nonsense and talk about how to direct ourselves to real work.

And... In-dig-nay-shun! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtCiP8B2xpc#t=7s

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#89
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Many people go into startups just for the profit motive, but I firmly believe that you should start a startup because it is something you want to do or because a side project became too large to continue as a side project (forced to do)

I feel like HN's focus has changed in that regard. Call me crazy, but I feel like it was less "get-rich" focused a couple years ago.

Maybe, maybe not. This essay was published almost ten years ago...

"Wealth is what you want, not money. But if wealth is the important thing, why does everyone talk about making money? It is a kind of shorthand: money is a way of moving wealth, and in practice they are usually interchangeable. But they are not the same thing, and unless you plan to get rich by counterfeiting, talking about making money can make it harder to understand how to make money." http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html

Re: An acquisition is always a failure

#90

No, no, a thousand times no. This is complete bullshit. I'm sorry, but you lost me at: The proper ambition for a tech entrepreneur should be to join the ranks of the great tech companies, or, at least, to create a profitable, independent company beloved by employees, customers, and shareholders. Nobody, not you, not my mom or dad, not "God", not Linus Torvalds, not Bill Gates, not the Queen of England, not the Dali L…

See ? That´s the visceral proof that today, we have very few visionaries, real entrepreneurs and much more "employees like" trying to run a business. I can´t see Bill Gates, Sergrey Brin or Steve Jobs (TRUE VISIONARIES AND ENTREPRENEURS) selling their companies for shit (like a fucking trip? a house ? wtf go borrow some money to your moms health problem). And if they do, they got depressed, like the OP. So welcome to the true Hacker News OP.
Post reply on HN