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I'm tired

andymoore.ca

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Re: I'm tired

#81

Post by fudged71 »

18hrs wrote: post #62
famousactress wrote: post #2

I hate that feeling.. the knowledge that engaging in the discussion is going to be exhausting and the chance of making traction is slim, and the feeling that inaction is the only reasonable alternative. Allow me to suggest another alternative to actual discussion in situations like this: Tell the person to fuck off. I'm serious. It registers disagreement, and to any rational person the lack of interest in attempting…

I agree about the need to clearly register disagreement, but I'd opt for slightly less shock... I'd say, calmly and sternly "that is entirely inappropriate." I'd then call on others in the group to register their disagreement.

A general statement like that can be argued.

"What you just said disgusts me" seems more fitting. You're communicating how it is personally affecting you. That can't be argued.

Re: I'm tired

#82

Post by defen »

GhotiFish wrote: post #77

There is a website http://notalwaysright.com/ It's an aggregation of stories from people working in the service industry who have horror stories to tell from the customers they serviced. If you read through a few stories you might pick up on a anomaly that seems to pervade. Particularly any story from the "Awesome Customers" category. For some stories we see normal, self-righteous, mildly ignorant, comical behavior,…

I had the same reaction. After years on the Internet you have to develop a sensitive bullshit detector. I'd love to hear this story told from the perspective of someone else at the table.

Re: I'm tired

#84

Post by tiredofcareer »

banachtarski wrote: post #65
tiredofcareer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking based on experience with what happened to Jesse Noller and the PSF just two weeks ago , you do not want to escalate this to any level where someone might lose a job or be asked to leave the conference. The same people that cannot handle social situations with women without discussing their tits resort to death threats and nonstop harassment when one of "their own" is chastised publicly for such a thing. If I…

The notice to the individual need not be overtly public-facing. It could just be a dialog between the conference committee (who should care about the quality of its attendees) and the person in question. I personally would also prefer less public vitriol everywhere.

Okay, sure, but at that point why not just do it yourself? You're basically saying "I can't handle this myself, can you talk to the guy for me?"

Re: I'm tired

#85

Post by iguana »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #56
iguana wrote: post #48

That's quite a bold statement to make to someone, basically equivalent to saying, "you're nothing without your genitals". The proper response isn't "I disagree" or even "fuck you", it's a punch to the face. Seriously, if someone tells you, or your friend that they're worthless, you don't have to argue with them, you can knock them the fuck out.

Legally, you can't.

Yay! My first downvotes! The law doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything. It simply prescribes a liability. You can educate someone by saying, "your comment is sexist", to which they will save face and complain about your lack of sense of humor, etc. You can also educate them about the consequences of insulting someone with mild violence, which is far more likely to stick with them. Of course, you can't go around beating people up, and I didn't suggest anything of the sort. Mild violence is a common response to insults. A bruised ego goes a long way in social calibration, which this idiot was clearly missing.

Re: I'm tired

#86

Post by niggler »

rescripting wrote: post #26
famousactress wrote: post #2

I hate that feeling.. the knowledge that engaging in the discussion is going to be exhausting and the chance of making traction is slim, and the feeling that inaction is the only reasonable alternative. Allow me to suggest another alternative to actual discussion in situations like this: Tell the person to fuck off. I'm serious. It registers disagreement, and to any rational person the lack of interest in attempting…

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but for a non confrontational person this course of action is still a battle. When you see this all the time and fight it even just by calling it out, it still wears you out. Like it or not the hackerverse is full of people who deemphasize social experiences in favour of other things. When someone makes a comment this inappropriate in public you're not just battling their sexism, you'…

"deemphasize social experiences in favour of other things"

The situation shows an active effort in eschewing societal norms. You have to work hard to shut down the mental filter that normally prevents you from making such an off-kilter remark

Re: I'm tired

#87

Post by bcoates »

GhotiFish wrote: post #77

There is a website http://notalwaysright.com/ It's an aggregation of stories from people working in the service industry who have horror stories to tell from the customers they serviced. If you read through a few stories you might pick up on a anomaly that seems to pervade. Particularly any story from the "Awesome Customers" category. For some stories we see normal, self-righteous, mildly ignorant, comical behavior,…

Except for the part where the OP says he didn't confront the guy but wishes he did.

Re: I'm tired

#88

Post by fudged71 »

tjbiddle wrote: post #10

Why is this even a topic anymore? I don't understand how this can even enter into someone's mind as an acceptable remark to make. This is the 21st century - if you don't treat women with respect and as equals then please, don't show your face in public anymore until you learn normal human etiquette.

It's interesting to think of the person's motivations, and what kind of feedback they were expecting with these comments.

Re: I'm tired

#89

Post by tiredofcareer »

danso wrote: post #43

This was painful to read. It's hard to get into the usual is-there-sexism-in-tech-or-not debate because this is so beyond the pale-dysfunctional. First, that anyone could say such a thing in polite company. Second, that the rest of the table did not demand the offending person to leave. Seriously, how is anyone, espicially the targeted woman, expected to enjoy their dinner and have a non-awkward conversation after th…

> But leaving out of protest is always an option.

Why should I ruin my evening due to this guy? What exactly are you protesting? Do you think this kind of person gives a shit if you walk away? Do you think the entire rest of the table will follow you? (Answer: No.) Stand up to him and resolve it; if no progress is made and it turns ugly, that person is no longer welcome at your table and you move on. I laid out a template here[0].

I see lots of people saying "walk away" -- you're letting the troll win. That's your dinner. This isn't like high school where you can just up and walk away and get whispers going in the hallway about what happened at lunch last Tuesday, OMG! Handle it like a grown person.

This is important: TROLLS WILL CONTINUE TROLLING AS LONG AS YOUR SILLY CLINGING TO POLITENESS MEANS YOU WON'T CONFRONT THEM. Your being polite enables them. Think about that. Just don't get it wrong and draw down on a harmless comment that you misunderstood.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5483332

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