Since in general few women are developers, I rather doubt the hiring of pr women has any bearing on the situation. If it is really so frustrating, maybe dressing accordingly would alleviate the pain - don't know, carry a Linux book, a T- Shirt that says "no, I won't fix your computer", or something like that.
Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
81–90 of 227 posts
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#82Seems like a hard problem to solve. Sending people to do product promotional is perfectly legitimate depending on the type of event. Even if you weren't deliberately targeting a male audience with attractive females (although I'm sure that was the case), odds are that if you were recruiting for that kind of work 90% would be outgoing and attractive young women. Just like recruiting programmers will get you 90% geeky…
> Seems like a hard problem to solve. How about: Highly visible conference badges that differentiate spokespersons from developers? There would be motivation for companies to game this, so that they could have spokespersons with "female geek cred." I think that this could be handled to within reason. Also, it might motivate companies to send their actual female employees, thus giving females more exposure at GDC.
I suppose you could have everybody wear a badge that lists their job title, except not everybody is there representing a company. Large buckets, then? Artists, engineers, management, product, technical other, non-technical other?
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#83If I'm understanding correctly, the author would prefer it if non-technical female expo floor workers were scantily-clad so she would be less likely to be assumed by other conference-goers to be non-technical herself..? I'm sorry, but I find that pretty offensive. I don't claim to know what it's like to be a woman in a heavily male-dominated field (or just your de facto patriarchy, for that matter), but I also don't…
What the author experienced is status-checking. Status-checking is a human activity. Here is a key component in this conversation. The author writes: "When trying to join lots of interesting conversations, I either had to be that asshole who casually drops her credentials, or deal with a few rounds of being told things were “complicated engineering stuff.”"
That is a problem ALL male developers face repeatedly. It's the problem of getting respect and status. It's the same as when two dogs meet in a park. You always have to fight to convince other people you're intelligent. I have three degrees and 20 years of working experience, yet I still have to compete with others to convince them I deserve the status and respect I do. Probably many of you who are reading this now will not be convinced. I am tested daily at my job. And it's got nothing to do with my gender. It's how living beings maintain order. We test each other. We sniff each other's butts. We keep track of who knows what they're doing and who is a pretender or out of date.
The author suggested that if all the non-skilled ladies were pigeon-holed as sexual objects, the male geeks would be prejudiced into adorning her with the status she deserves. This assumption is false. She would still have to compete. In tech circles and every other field from welding to law to nuclear physics to snowmobiling to kitesurfing, one faces significant social obstacles when meeting strangers to communicate one's experience and status levels. There is no shortcut (until you're famous). This is quite simply how human interaction works in competitive environments: people jockey for position. It's in our DNA throughout all of the mammalian kingdom. All of the blogs and tweets in the world won't change this. One notable exception is the "nice guys" who afford woman status before they deserve it. Many women are quite familiar with this behavior (and many of them are frustrated with it, because once they realize they are afforded status they haven't earned, they realize the person is unskilled at determining people's social status or just trying to appeal to their ego).
I hope every woman who thinks that the tech world will suddenly somehow deviate from 195 million years of evolution - who thinks that the tech world could possibly ever deviate from 195 million years of evolution - in order to accommodate her unfounded expectations takes this seriously and deeply to heart. No matter what, you're going to have to fight to convince other people that you know what you're talking about and that's got nothing to do with your gender, it's got to do with the fact that you're in a competitive social situation. That's they way nature created mammals, and eventually, the human being. I hope they all recognize this behavior in all of the other situations they take part in: going to the bank, playing on a team, fitting in with a church - all humans of all genders experience this. The "world of tech" is especially rife with it b/c it is especially competitive.
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#84If I'm understanding correctly, the author would prefer it if non-technical female expo floor workers were scantily-clad so she would be less likely to be assumed by other conference-goers to be non-technical herself..? I'm sorry, but I find that pretty offensive. I don't claim to know what it's like to be a woman in a heavily male-dominated field (or just your de facto patriarchy, for that matter), but I also don't…
You most certainly are not.
The author is simply pointing out that ending the booth babe situation isn't a panacea. The real issue is the shortage of actual technical contributors who are also women:
> Goodness knows, if I had the power to bring tons of other technical women at the conference that would be an optimal solution
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
>1. Do not hire eye candy as eye candy. Of either sex. Dressed up or dressed down. Eye candy is extremely effective in marketing. That's like saying "don't hire smart programmers". Why would companies handicap their marketing efforts?
Sure, that's why you retaliate against such advertisers. Boycotts, public campaigns, etc. Through such efforts, corporations have become noticeably less overt about using people of color and women as inferior objects for the amusement of the dominating classes.
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#86Since in general few women are developers, I rather doubt the hiring of pr women has any bearing on the situation. If it is really so frustrating, maybe dressing accordingly would alleviate the pain - don't know, carry a Linux book, a T- Shirt that says "no, I won't fix your computer", or something like that.
So I like the core of this idea, but since many gentlemen have been trained to not stare at a girl's boobs and make a great point of keeping their eyes up, I'm not sure if they'd read my shirt at all. It would probably have to be a different piece of clothing
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#87I think I'm missing where the friction is in dropping your credentials? You don't have to storm in and say, "Do you know who I am??!". Isn't it easy and actually very polite to introduce yourself and what you do? "Hi I'm {Name}, This topic fascinates me as I'm also a developer..." And go from there?
Women in technical fields (and nearly every woman in tech whom I've befriended mentions this) get subtle cues that men don't even notice, because we're not the target.
(Worst yet is that women have a tendency to do it to each other as well!)
It's as if you have the bozo bit dropped on you before you've spoken a word, and you're continually fighting an uphill battle.
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#88Hmmm ... I'm not sure I can agree with the idea of dressing more of the booth babes in bikinis (seems like a step backwards), but I can understand the need to be viewed as technical. And at a conference like GDC, it can be hard for the guys to know who is technical and who isn't. I propose the people that want to talk technical and be treated as "nerds" all wear propeller beanies from now on. That way we'll be able t…
> I'm not sure I can agree with the idea of dressing more of the booth babes in bikinis I don't think that was OP's point, per se. It's that the bikini-clad "uniform" tended to provide an automatic distinction between the women hired to staff booths from the women attending the conference. Once that distinction was removed an unfortunate bias and/or numbers game kicked in: attendees started implicitly assuming "woman…
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#89How did this happen? I seriously doubt it's because girls in bikinis stopped being effective. But when you can't get away with sexualized advertisement without being martyred, you're going to look for similarly effective marketing that won't offend the people throwing the stones, and in my opinion they've done exactly what we should have expected in this situation.
I'm not saying it's right or that women shouldn't expect to be treated as equals. I am saying that the tech community (and several others) have tried and are trying so hard to reject sex and sexuality and any application of it that might possibly offend someone that we're finally making it worse. Before it was just an obnoxious inability to be comfortable with ourselves. Now that we've gotten to the point where everyone knows how prudish and hyperconservative we are, they've also figured out how to keep marketing to us effectively without offending our delicate sensibilities. And we're still upset.
It's a shame that so many men have such a hard time conducting themselves well in mixed professional company. It's also a shame that we are so utterly unable to be men and women without pigeonholing ourselves and harassing each other over it. It's a sad situation.
Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that it's a hard problem, but I think you're looking at the wrong one. The problematic assumption here is that a given woman was paid to be there. This was a reasonable assumption on the part of the other attendees, only because there are so few women in the games industry. So rather than the problem-to-tackle being a cat-and-mouse with vendors trying to get the most-effective promotions' staff to the venue,…
I don't think that assumption is safe of the women who aren't in costume. I think they're just female employees in non-technical roles. They're not eye candy. That's what I find so strange about the original post. She's assuming they're there as eye candy and they sure don't seem to be. It's odd to hear a woman assume that other women (especially since they're pretty average) are there for their looks. The few I've t…