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The dire state of WordPress

jshakespeare.com

81–90 of 162 posts

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#81

I've used Symphony CMS (getsymphony.com) to build several websites, one of them quite large. I love it. It's the first CMS I've used that isn't a total mess architecturally. At it's core it provides a highly customizable interface for maintaining a database of content, XML data sources that pull from that database (or external XML sources), and XSL templates that are combined with the XML to produce the HTML pages of…

Calling a PHP-based CMS "Symphony" has the faint smell of dubious marketing.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#82

WordPress needs more rules I'm convinced Wordpress is successful despite this. No rules implies very low barrier to entry .

I think you mean it's successful because of its lack of rules, and I disagree. WordPress's low barrier to entry stems from a combination of PHP's ubiquity and a positive feedback loop of popularity. More rules wouldn't hurt either of these factors.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#83
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's massively entrenched because of the network effect of the themes and plugins, no doubt. What will overtake wordpress as a blog/cms platform is something that can allow for a large number of the popular themes and plugins to be dropped in (or converted silently). It probably won't happen, but think of Lotus/Excel, for example (or WordPerfect/Word) - both Lotus and WordPerfect were dominant for a long time. People…

But the thing is, many of the major flaws of WordPress are baked into its theme and plugin formats. Much like with Excel, you'll need to match it quirk-for-quirk to interoperate with it. And what's the point of simply reimplementing WordPress?

I think you could probably get away with shooting for something like 70-80% functionality via a wrapper layer around your new APIs. Even Excel and Word aren't 100% compatible between their own versions, and WP is going through a transition period where many older plugins don't work either.

The goal would not be to reimplement all of wordpress, but implement a compatibility layer suitable to emulating enough of the basics to allow some migrations and encourage people to try out something new.

There's dozens of CMS and blogging engines out there, but no one has attempted a WP-emulation layer (as far as I can tell). Although, given it's PHP nature, and direct grabbing of $_GET and $_POST and such, it may simply not be possible at all.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#84
There is always Habari, the newer, modular “microkernel”, modern PHP based, Apache-licensed CMS/blogging platform. Since it’s PHP, it features the same easy deployability. But it has stagnated in the last years and only recently has development taken up speed again. If you’re interested in hacking on something like that, drop by irc.freenode.net #habari or mail to habari-dev@googlegroups.com.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#86
post #31

Here's a suggestion, If we can't get WordPress to change, why not fork it and build a "developer" friendly version while maintaining compatibility with subsequent iterations of WordPress? Frankly, I find the people who run the WP development community to be insufferable (Matt included). If you've ever read their discussions for code changes, it just makes you want to pull your hair out. Their pedantic in fighting riv…

Maintaining complete compatibility with WordPress, including any future changes, while trying to clean up design problems (how is this actually possible without breaking anything?) would be a full-time unpaid job from hell and who would actually thank you for it?

Exactly. Everyone that says "fork it" also say "maintain plugin/theme compatibility". That compatibility is part of the problem. The best solution is something that is easy to install and administer for non-dev users. To get something with the extensibility of wordpress will probably take a very long time. For now we just have to deal with what wordpress is.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#87
post #69
post #7

To paraphrase Churchill, Wordpress is the worst CMS -- except for all the others. I'd love to find an open-source CMS (preferably in Python or Ruby) with clean, secure, elegant code and a well-organized framework that comes with a friendly admin and active, responsive development community like Wordpress, but so far I've got nothing. (If anyone has any suggestions, please do feel free to share them!)

I like ExpressionEngine if what you really want is a CMS.

As someone who hasn't spent a ton of time extending any CMS but uses a lot of frameworks, I enjoyed EE too during the short amount of time I used it. Out of wordpress, drupal, and EE, EE is the one where writing plugins felt like normal programming since they hooked right into code igniter. (Not sure how things have changed in the last couple of years though.)

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#88
post #82

WordPress needs more rules I'm convinced Wordpress is successful despite this. No rules implies very low barrier to entry .

I think you mean it's successful because of its lack of rules, and I disagree. WordPress's low barrier to entry stems from a combination of PHP's ubiquity and a positive feedback loop of popularity. More rules wouldn't hurt either of these factors.

More like PHP's ubiquity which leads to easy installs for non-developers. The reason wordpress is so successful doesn't revolve around the devs. It's because your everyday blogger can setup a blog in 20 minutes. The dev focus comes from having so many users.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#89
post #8
post #7

To paraphrase Churchill, Wordpress is the worst CMS -- except for all the others. I'd love to find an open-source CMS (preferably in Python or Ruby) with clean, secure, elegant code and a well-organized framework that comes with a friendly admin and active, responsive development community like Wordpress, but so far I've got nothing. (If anyone has any suggestions, please do feel free to share them!)

And don't forget the amazing amount of functionality that's available for free using the plugin system. It's a classic software development problem - Wordpress's complexity is both it's strength and weakness, and will probably be it's downfall one day (but not just yet)

I've found plugins to be extremely hit-and-miss, though.

I was helping a photographer friend who bought a commercial theme, which broke admin-side Javascript when he did the 3.4 -> 3.5.1 update. We still haven't figured out exactly what happened, but it just reinforced for me again that a) Wordpress hasn't adequately documented which APIs are stable and not, b) Authors, even of paid add-ons, don't keep their stuff up to date.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#90
Rather than tackling a rewrite of Wordpress itself, what about a set of conventions and practices for add-ons and themes, a clearly defined set of API functions, and an automated validator to enforce at least some of it.

Even if the validator was just a grep for function calls outside of a whitelist, that would be an excellent starting point.

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