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Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

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Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#81

Post by 7952 »

brudgers wrote: post #46

This petition is complaining about the neighbor on your left letting his dog crap in your yard, when the neighbor on the right is running a meth lab. We are carrying around phones filled with spyware to track what we listen to, watch and read an where we do it. How hard is it to discern even our sleep habits? We put them on the charger beside the bed at night and tune in to Pandora. If our phones can't tell if we're…

In a world in which computers chips are ubiquitous and connected it is almost impossible to avoid this kind of risk. We implicitly trust numerous companies who could have left back doors in a system. I trust Android more than the random ASIC in my phone or the proprietary software in my router.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#83

Post by sc0rb »

VexXtreme wrote: post #67
tobiasu wrote: post #15

On the contrary, please continue. Improve it by adding BonziBuddy and friends. Please please please ruin your already non-existent reputation, Oracle. Help ordinary people who have no idea what Oracle is, connect your name with spam and spyware (and security problems, ofc).

I would love to see that. Java really deserves to die a death at this point.

Here we go again, another Java hater for no reason. What should we replace it with? someCrap.js? someOtherCrap.py?

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Killing Java would be a ridiculous thing to do. You live in such a bubble.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#84

Post by sc0rb »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #71
Eliezer wrote: post #36

Are you offering to pay for Java development and maintenance? I mean... someone has to. How is this not a case of demanding things for free? If the petition were asking Oracle to establish a nonprofit that could support Java and offering to pay the first $10,000 toward it, I'd have a quite different reaction. But this seems to me no different from agitating for "free healthcare" without even mentioning who might pay…

.net is free and doesn't come bundled with toolbars and crapware

Except Windows is crapware.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#85

Post by fierarul »

Apreche wrote: post #42

Petition: Programmers, stop using the Oracle versions of Java. Too many of your Java programs only work properly with Oracle JVM, etc. Instead, standardize on another one of the Java implementations so that it can become the premiere implementation and really screw with Oracle.

Which other Java implementations? Apache's is abandoned. OpenJDK is basically still Oracle. What's left? IBM's JDK?

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#86

Post by bunderbunder »

pepr wrote: post #78
jwr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us (especially in the performance-oriented crowd, or people using large heaps) really have no choice here.

I'm curious, are other Java implementations (e.g. OpenJDK) really that bad? I mean, quite a lot of influential/resourceful companies are behind it, are they unwilling or unable to improve it?

The OpenJDK project is run by Oracle.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#87

Post by warmwaffles »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #54
drostie wrote: post #21

"As you know people, as you learn about things, you realize that these generalizations we have are, virtually to a generalization, false. Well, except for this one, as it turns out. What you think of Oracle, is even truer than you think it is. There has been no entity in human history with less complexity or nuance to it than Oracle. And I gotta say, as someone who has seen that complexity for my entire life, it's ve…

The Oracle bit of that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=33m

His rant is entertaining.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#88

Post by bunderbunder »

monochromatic wrote: post #52
tobiasu wrote: post #15

On the contrary, please continue. Improve it by adding BonziBuddy and friends. Please please please ruin your already non-existent reputation, Oracle. Help ordinary people who have no idea what Oracle is, connect your name with spam and spyware (and security problems, ofc).

Ordinary people won't notice.

That's fine. Ordinary people never really realized how irritating Adobe was being about Flash, either, but that wasn't really a big deal because it was ultimately Flash's poor reputation among techies that brought it down.

Similarly, I think Java's worst nightmare scenario wouldn't be end users deciding they don't like it. (Heck, like with Flash most of them don't even know when they're using it.) It would be some massive headline-making Java-related security breach at a Fortune 500 company convincing IT departments around the world to start thinking that it's time to migrate to a less risky platform.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#89

Post by VexXtreme »

sc0rb wrote: post #83
VexXtreme wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see that. Java really deserves to die a death at this point.

Here we go again, another Java hater for no reason. What should we replace it with? someCrap.js? someOtherCrap.py? You really have no idea what you're talking about. Killing Java would be a ridiculous thing to do. You live in such a bubble.

I work with Java every day. Java and Spring pay my bills at the moment but that doesn't lessen my contempt for the platform. Overly amateurish nature of the community/ecosystem is a huge issue when you are building enterprise level applications (but have no choice really, because it is your company's technology of choice - usually because they are too cheap to pay for decent dev tools).

The whole community is full of de facto "standards" and half baked libraries which are usually results of someone's summer project.

The language in and of itself is alright (although massively outdated compared to more modern alternatives like C#), but the virtual machine and the nature of the ecosystem make me want to blow my brains out on daily basis. Don't even get me started on the recent security debacle.

I don't know a lot about these new *.js technologies but if they are right tools for the job, then yes, I wouldn't have anything against using them where appropriate.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#90

Post by mikro2nd »

omershapira wrote: post #45
Eliezer wrote: post #36

Are you offering to pay for Java development and maintenance? I mean... someone has to. How is this not a case of demanding things for free? If the petition were asking Oracle to establish a nonprofit that could support Java and offering to pay the first $10,000 toward it, I'd have a quite different reaction. But this seems to me no different from agitating for "free healthcare" without even mentioning who might pay…

To be fair, Oracle is (or was planning on) making heaps of money out of Java for business. Client-side Java seems like less than a portion of their plan to start with (anyone who mentions JavaFX here gets banned from the internet) - I mean, start with hiring a designer for the download page. This disrespect to users is exactly why they're treating it that way. If it's not that important to them, might as well import…

So maybe a petition to get Oracle to stop bundling JavaFX with the rest of the JDK...?

I mean, what the hell are they thinking anyway? That we're going to be so awed by it just because it's rammed down our throats? Nobody is ever going to use JavaFX any more than they're going to use Silverlight. They should get over it already.

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