The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded • Hacker News Board

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#81

Post by jacques_chester » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 6:28 AM UTC

ra wrote: post #76

jacques_chester wrote: post #12

I basically joined the ACS because it's there and I figured I ought to. They gave me a post-nominal: CT. If I want the next grade up -- CP -- I will need to take thousands of dollars of synergising-outside-the-box courses. Basically the ACS isn't really for software engineers. It's for middle management. I won't be renewing. (I might renew my ACM/IEEE memberships).

Totally. I've only once heard the ACS mentioned outside of the immigration context, and that was a senior manager in a bank asking why we (his best tech staff) weren't members. I'm not sure if (Insert nationality here) Computer Societies are as irrelevant in other countries, but in Australia I'm pretty sure it serves no useful role other than in immigration. So, if that's the case, they have no basis for qualificatio…

Well I wanted to join the IEEE-CS and ACM because those are the legit world leaders. I've harboured that ambition ever since I was a teenager and I read the first edition of Code Complete.

But that too has turned out to be bit of a farce. The real value is in their digital libraries and it is amazing how carefully they segment it to make it hard to get access to anything useful without paying frankly stupid amounts of money.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#82

Post by daemin » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 6:30 AM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #74

daemin wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as software is concerned, until we have proper liability for defective software, ala Civil/Mechanical Engineering (where one signs their name to the design to certify safety and fit-for-purpose), we have little right to call ourselves (Software) Engineers, and hence no real reason for a professional accreditation/certification body. I also just looked at the website, and all of the membership levels look like…

Liability doesn't make sense for a lot of software. It's not like electricity where it's always potentially dangerous, civil where mistakes can cause death and dismemberment en masse and so on. Basically software liability is just rolled up into the relevant market. Writing facebook games? It doesn't really matter to society if you get it a bit wrong. Writing pacemaker software? Then you're governed by medical device…

Exactly my point.

The wide range of software that can be written precludes a standard measure of risk and liability, hence it eliminates the need for an (software) industry wide accreditation body.

Plus I've always found smaller more local meetups to be a better way of interacting with a specific development community.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#83

Post by buyx » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 6:32 AM UTC

Having witnessed the hoops that 2 colleagues with significant experience, skills and strong qualifications- both had university degrees, and were white (meaning that they received a high quality education) -had to jump through to migrate from South Africa to Australia, I suspected ACS was more of a protection racket. This seems to validate this opinion.

One gave up, the other went to New Zealand.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#84

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 6:37 AM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #80

beilabs wrote: post #58

Here's my experience with the Australian Computer Society. Having studied abroad (Ireland), I was required to send in all of my exam results for my B.Sc, H.Dip & M.Sc. as well as a reference from each employer that I worked with in my field (Software Engineering). For the visa I was applying for at the time it required that I was certified by the ACS, have a minimum of 5 years experience. The process took 6 months fo…

Compare that to a Canadian coming into the United States as a "Computer Systems Analyst" - Show up at the airport 20 minutes earlier than you normally would, give them a one-page letter describing your employer, what you'll be doing, where you'll be working. Include a either a 2 year diploma + 2 (3?) years of work experience or a 4 year degree. 10 minutes later you have a Visa good for three years. Normally one expec…

[deleted]

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#85

Post by teflonhook » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 6:39 AM UTC

beamso wrote: post #79

Schwolop wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More so he's pro-theoretical grounding in a subject, because with the right background it's easy to get up to speed in the practicalities. It's a bit unpleasant reading these articles (Barrie's and the original by Harper) now, as I currently work for Bigcommerce, and turned down an offer from Freelancer. Ironically, Freelancer offerred me about 40% less salary because at the time I had a theoretical background and al…

If you like, turn on 'showdead' in your HN preferences. Matt appears to have responded to your original post directly from a hellbanned account (teflonhook).

lol. anyway to 'undead' yourself?

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#86

Post by 13hours » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 6:40 AM UTC

buyx wrote: post #83

Having witnessed the hoops that 2 colleagues with significant experience, skills and strong qualifications- both had university degrees, and were white (meaning that they received a high quality education) -had to jump through to migrate from South Africa to Australia, I suspected ACS was more of a protection racket. This seems to validate this opinion. One gave up, the other went to New Zealand.

I'm just staying in South Africa.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#87

Post by geolqued » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 6:55 AM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #71

geolqued wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those rates are voluntarily self-reported by rental property managers - there's a fairly clear conflict of interest. According to the following Melbourne has a 5.9% vacancy rate. They use water usage data from the water companies for their analysis. ( http://www.earthsharing.org.au/wp-content/uploads/Philip_Soo...

What's the conflict of interest?

Vacancy rate is basically a property manager's KPI. Additionally, data is collected by the REIV which has no interest in providing bad news about investing in property. https://s.zoomerang.com/s/REIV-January-2013-Vacancy-Survey

REIV vacancy rate is (unleased property on the books) / (property on the books). It's always going to be an under-estimate of true vacancy due to properties that are empty full time and those that are privately managed and temporarily vacant.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#88

Post by jiggy2011 » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 7:26 AM UTC

ra wrote: post #76

jacques_chester wrote: post #12

I basically joined the ACS because it's there and I figured I ought to. They gave me a post-nominal: CT. If I want the next grade up -- CP -- I will need to take thousands of dollars of synergising-outside-the-box courses. Basically the ACS isn't really for software engineers. It's for middle management. I won't be renewing. (I might renew my ACM/IEEE memberships).

Totally. I've only once heard the ACS mentioned outside of the immigration context, and that was a senior manager in a bank asking why we (his best tech staff) weren't members. I'm not sure if (Insert nationality here) Computer Societies are as irrelevant in other countries, but in Australia I'm pretty sure it serves no useful role other than in immigration. So, if that's the case, they have no basis for qualificatio…

In Britain we have the British Computer Society. When we were at university they turned up and gave us a talk on the benefits of membership and sold a bunch of us "student memberships", to graduate to full membership IIRC you needed to get a degree and then pass a bunch of extra exams.

Out of all the people I know working professionally in dev/IT I don't think any of them are now BCS members.

I haven't heard of employers asking for it either.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#89

Post by buyx » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 7:42 AM UTC

ra wrote: post #76

jacques_chester wrote: post #12

I basically joined the ACS because it's there and I figured I ought to. They gave me a post-nominal: CT. If I want the next grade up -- CP -- I will need to take thousands of dollars of synergising-outside-the-box courses. Basically the ACS isn't really for software engineers. It's for middle management. I won't be renewing. (I might renew my ACM/IEEE memberships).

Totally. I've only once heard the ACS mentioned outside of the immigration context, and that was a senior manager in a bank asking why we (his best tech staff) weren't members. I'm not sure if (Insert nationality here) Computer Societies are as irrelevant in other countries, but in Australia I'm pretty sure it serves no useful role other than in immigration. So, if that's the case, they have no basis for qualificatio…

It's interesting, because just last week I looked up the South African Computer Society, and they too, seem to be fading into obscurity.

There is a role I think, for software developers to organise in some form, to accredit training courses and represent the profession/craft/trade to government.

It seems these old style Computer Societies aren't up to the job and prefer to act as gatekeepers.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#90

Post by chris_wot » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 7:45 AM UTC

aohtsab wrote: post #77

lessnonymous wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know they exist. They're just irrelevant. It says a lot if you prefer to tell us you're an ACS member rather than that you write code for fun at home.

This is interesting to hear. I'm in the process of applying for an Australian visa (no CS degree). To get an independent visa, I need 2 more years of work experience, before I qualify to apply to have my skills tested by ACS in very specific (and almost esoteric) programming knowledge. And this is only the first step to apply for an 'invitation to apply' for a visa. What are my job prospects as a US software develope…

There are plenty of people out here who Ron even have degrees who know gigantic amounts and are highly skilled, and who the ACS wouldn't even talk to. They are a complete waste of time.