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What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

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Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#81
post #40

"E se me nona gavesse e rode sarìa na carioea", as they say here in the Veneto, which, literally translated, means "if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be be a wheelbarrow".

In Hungary I heard the same saying, just with streetcar instead of wheelbarrow. Funny how these things tend to spread.

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#82

As a hiring manager, the thing I find most interesting on posts like this (ignoring that the analogy is TERRIBLE) are the comments of people used to being on the other side of the desk. I don't think we (as interviewers) do a good job of explaining why we ask the questions we ask. And I don't think we do a good job of communicating what our job is. Our job is to stop you getting hired. If we get 100 people applying f…

"Our job is to stop you getting hired. If we get 100 people applying for the job, then our job is to not employ at least 99. So we are looking for anything that identifies you as being one of the 99."

If you have only position to fill and 100 people applied for that position, yes, your position makes sense. But if you have 100 positions to fill, will you still insist that you must interview 10000 people to fill those positions?

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#83

As a hiring manager, the thing I find most interesting on posts like this (ignoring that the analogy is TERRIBLE) are the comments of people used to being on the other side of the desk. I don't think we (as interviewers) do a good job of explaining why we ask the questions we ask. And I don't think we do a good job of communicating what our job is. Our job is to stop you getting hired. If we get 100 people applying f…

"That you could go away and learn what color the middle wire is is great. But the guy next to you has been fixing wiring in distributor caps for years. And right now, I need people that know what color the middle wire is."

If you're hiring a mechanic, yes. However, the analogy was pointing out that the person being asked the question was a potential car renter. That specific knowledge is not relevant as a car renter.

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! To add: Interviewer#3: We are looking for someone who knows how operate the navigation screen on the 2010 Escort. Applicant: My car does not have the navigation option installed. Interviewer: Then you do not qualify. Knowing how to work the navigation system is a priority. Applicant: I know how to work navigation systems in general. My car before this one had a navigation system and I learned it pretty quickly. I…

Interviewer#3: We are willing to accept 8 years of education with a Master's or equivalent on the subject of 2010 Escort navigation systems in lieu of 10 years driving experience, for otherwise qualified candidates Completely off-topic response to your note, but I loved my 2000 Focus and I was almost sad to sell it. It went through air intake hoses on the transmission about as fast as it did gasoline (hyperbole, but…

> got my wife from Tucson to Seattle as safe as could be It's a lot safer, I would have thought, per mile to do long highway drives than lots of short urban journeys, particularly on the separated highways in the USA.

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#85

I became unreasonably angry while reading this. I guess it struck a nerve with me for some reason. During my interviews, I was very charismatic, confident in my skills, was asked technical question that were things I would need day in day out. I landed the job on 100% of those interviews. There was this one time were the guy kept asking me crap I would never EVER need while working for his company. Binary tree's, lin…

Out of curiosity, why do you consider binary trees, linked lists, and pointer arithmetic to be so out of the bounds of possibility for work at a job? Those strike me as skills I might find invaluable in one of my software engineers depending on the job.

>find invaluable in one of my software engineers -depending on the job-.

I think you kind of answered the question yourself. ;)

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#86
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your rationale is to find out if you're going to work with competent peers, why not asK a question that leads into a proper, deeper technical discussion?

He meant his stated rationale. I'm sure his actual rationale is to try and help the interviewer achieve enlightenment by turning his own pointless methods back on him.

[deleted]

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#87
post #80

As a hiring manager, the thing I find most interesting on posts like this (ignoring that the analogy is TERRIBLE) are the comments of people used to being on the other side of the desk. I don't think we (as interviewers) do a good job of explaining why we ask the questions we ask. And I don't think we do a good job of communicating what our job is. Our job is to stop you getting hired. If we get 100 people applying f…

The point is that the guy who can fix wiring in distributor caps might be able to do that specific task. But maybe it took him 5 years to learn that and a much better candidate who has no clue how to do that could master it in a week and will be fixing those caps at a higher quality. It's also that it's incredibly short-sighted to seek such specific skills in the technology industry with the rate of change in tech. F…

The problem with the analogy is that it's too specific. But I'm still hiring for right now. That you can easily learn next year's technology is something I'd rather you don't do on my time.

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#88

I became unreasonably angry while reading this. I guess it struck a nerve with me for some reason. During my interviews, I was very charismatic, confident in my skills, was asked technical question that were things I would need day in day out. I landed the job on 100% of those interviews. There was this one time were the guy kept asking me crap I would never EVER need while working for his company. Binary tree's, lin…

Out of curiosity, why do you consider binary trees, linked lists, and pointer arithmetic to be so out of the bounds of possibility for work at a job? Those strike me as skills I might find invaluable in one of my software engineers depending on the job.

Let me offer an explanation: maybe the job he was applying for asked for knowledge and experience in Java, Spring, Hibernate, Grails, Javascript, SQL, CSS, writing stored procs with PL/SQL, performance tuning, node.js, and Git...and the binary trees/linked lists portion only pertains to Java (and maybe Javascript?). More specifically, maybe the guy just hasn't had the need, for whatever reason, to use a binary tree or a linked list recently. I doubt he runs around saying "it's April, I haven't used a TreeMap in a while, let me use one now so it's fresh in my mind for next year's interview".

The point I'm trying to make is that some requirements are very, very wide/broad. And then they'll take one piece of that broad pie and decide to go very, very deep.

And then there's the death knell...you spent time developing deep expertise in something no longer actively used. This applies more to frameworks than languages (i.e. Struts, Prototype, Dojo, etc.)

It's a no-win situation all around.

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#89
post #83

As a hiring manager, the thing I find most interesting on posts like this (ignoring that the analogy is TERRIBLE) are the comments of people used to being on the other side of the desk. I don't think we (as interviewers) do a good job of explaining why we ask the questions we ask. And I don't think we do a good job of communicating what our job is. Our job is to stop you getting hired. If we get 100 people applying f…

"That you could go away and learn what color the middle wire is is great. But the guy next to you has been fixing wiring in distributor caps for years. And right now, I need people that know what color the middle wire is." If you're hiring a mechanic, yes. However, the analogy was pointing out that the person being asked the question was a potential car renter. That specific knowledge is not relevant as a car renter.

Yes, the analogy is silly.

Re: What If Cars Were Rented Like We Hire Programmers?

#90

It's very easy to decry company hiring procedures. That happens all the time here on HN, and for a very good reason--most company hiring procedures are not based on research and are demonstrably suboptimal for hiring the best people. We discuss this a lot on Hacker News because many of us have been looking for jobs or looking for people to hire some time in our adult lives. From participants in earlier discussions I…

Personally as I said before I don't like these anti-discrimination laws and think they are likely fundamentally flawed (at least nowadays).
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