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It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

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Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#81

Post by everforward »

gruez wrote: post #34
stackskipton wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon may require the subcontractor wears the Amazon vest in contract with subcontractor. That's whole point, they appear to be Amazon employees in every way except for paycheck the employee receives and small lettering on the bottom of the car compared to big "AMAZON" lettering on the side. This matters if they do something and you go to sue them. All of sudden, you find out it's tiny company with only 1Million in…

>This matters if they do something and you go to sue them. All of sudden, you find out it's tiny company with only 1Million in assets and crappy insurance after they crash into a bus and cause brain damage. ( https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15983591/teenager-lif ...) That sounds like an issue with the insurance regime rather than with amazon specifically. Targeting amazon might be politically expedient because…

Others can cause damage, but your odds of being hit by an Amazon driver are dramatically higher than most other companies because of the number of drivers they run.

They found a sort of loophole in the law. It's supposed to be self-regulating in a way, because being enormous means a lot of drivers and a lot of accidents so businesses get very picky about who is allowed to drive and how they drive. That falls apart when there's a bajillion drivers but they're made up of thousands of separate "delivery contractors" running fly-by-night businesses that the owners fully expect to die at some point and so don't leave any cash in and don't put improvements into.

E.g. I hear Walmart's trucking side is actually fairly nice and difficult to get into. They pay relatively well for the work and it's a cushier kind of trucking (more local, I think), which means everyone wants to work there and they have exacting standards for their drivers. They don't want insurance payouts.

Amazon seems notably different because it is _weirdly_ common to hear a story that goes something like "Amazon driver gets arrested for driving double the speed limit while high". The kind of thing that would trigger fleet-wide drug tests at most businesses, but is sort of a normal hum over at Amazon.

Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#82

Post by malfist »

gruez wrote: post #25
pandanube wrote: post #2

This guy cant stop winning, can we clone him and get one for each state?

Progressives love to point out how popular their candidates are but fail to realize they're in a filter bubble that doesn't reflect the wider electorate. They were jubilant when al-Sayed won, but betting market odds for democrats winning dropped as a result.

And we all know that gamblers and betting odds always are correct.

Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#83

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

gruez wrote: post #48
figmert wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if one thing Mamdani is great at, it's that he's a great marketer. His brand is just so much better than any candidate I've seen in the US. Heck even in the UK to be honest.

>I think if one thing Mamdani is great at, it's that he's a great marketer. His brand is just so much better than any candidate You could say the same about Trump, and no, this is not supposed to be a compliment.

> You could say the same about Trump, and no, this is not supposed to be a compliment.

That's true, both Mamdani and Trump are very effective politicians. One can disagree with either or both of their positions, but that doesn't mean that they're not good at it.

Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#84

Post by EugeneG »

podgietaru wrote: post #78
EugeneG wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't we already have workers comp insurance laws? Other forms of liability insurance? Doesn't Amazon carry the same insurance if it's the one doing the delivery directly? Do we think levels of this insurance is insufficient in general and should be higher? Bottom line - just because Amazon doesn't directly have this liability - it doesn't mean nobody has this liability - the sub contractors do. And if they do, they…

I'd love to live in a world where companies compensate people correctly for the extra liability they're forced to take on. But my question for you is: Why do you think Amazon do this if it's not to specifically side track the exact things that I listed? If they were just paying the sub-contractor directly for that insurance? What would be the point.

There are existing laws/regs:

Workers comp: "Workers’ compensation insurance is mandatory for most employers of one or more employees." https://www.wcb.ny.gov/content/main/Employers/workers-compen...

See NY State minimums here: https://www.geico.com/commercial-auto-insurance/states/ny/

And also Amazon requires insurance: Amazon Delivery Service Partners (DSPs) must independently secure and maintain comprehensive commercial insurance. Amazon does not provide this coverage for subcontractors. Required policies typically include $1M+ auto and general liability, workers' compensation, and cargo protection, with Amazon explicitly named as an additional insured.

Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#86

Post by ncallaway »

richwater wrote: post #50
pandanube wrote: post #2

This guy cant stop winning, can we clone him and get one for each state?

Anyone can balance a budget by just delaying pension contributions. It's not impressive. What happens next year?

How big was the savings from delaying pension contributions and how big was the budget deficit?

Yes, delaying pension contributions was absolutely a fudge, but it’s not like that was 100% of the gap for going from a large deficit to a balanced budget.

Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#87

Post by dannyphantom »

dartharva wrote: post #57
tptacek wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It requires Amazon to directly employ delivery drivers in New York City and sets up a licensing scheme for last-mile delivery.

Isn't that.. worse? Putting local businesses out of jobs and instead consolidating all of them directly under the company's umbrella?

It would probably make the most sense for Amazon to scale out their on-road infra as drone delivery capacity (and much more slowly, the regulatory environment) is hammered out but I’m personally leaning towards the org going for a more practical response that ends up routing most packages through USPS instead.

Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#88

Post by ncallaway »

slicktux wrote: post #33
figmert wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obviously Amazon that requires them to wear the vest. Just because the contractor they work for enforces it doesn't, doesn't mean it's not Amazon requiring it.

That’s a rather splenetic response. On paper their contractor requires them to run an Amazon route and wear Amazon logo. Therefore, it’s not Amazon. I’m asking honest question that any court law will ask; cynicism is not part of the scales in court but rather objectivity.

Does Amazon require the contractor to have the contractors drivers wear Amazon branded vests?

What if the DSP is a single-person company? Then the DSP and the driver are the same person. In that case, is it Amazon or the DSP requiring the driver to wear Amazon livery?

Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#89

Post by jtokoph »

podgietaru wrote: post #55

I'm surprised to see so much of the rhetoric here being about what the concrete difference is... It is relatively easy to look that up, no? As far as I can see from a literal 5 second google search: - Liability for Injury at work is no longer on Amazon - Liability for injuries caused by Amazon workers get shifted to the Worker, rather than Amazon (despite the fact that some of the conditions leading to that may come…

Isn’t there confusion here between independent contractors and subcontractors?

Amazon is subcontracting out delivery to smaller companies, for example ACME Logistics, LLC. Amazon tells ACME when things need to be delivered. ACME then hires delivery drivers, whether the individuals in vests are full-time/part-time/1099 independent is another thing. I doubt Amazon is hiring any 1099 workers directly, but I could be wrong.

Re: It's time Amazon played by the same rules as everyone else [video]

#90

Post by jvanderbot »

runako wrote: post #43
jvanderbot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One issue that I have with many of these videos - what precisely is "this"? What issue is being addressed and what changes are proposed? It's entirely issue-adjacent slogans of "Amazon cheats, we will hurt them". And if I've learned anything from the most recent executive branch campaigns/elections, it's that vaguely defined "we'll get them" will get you elected but won't promise any meaningful changes other than pow…

The bill[1], which is named in the video, is available on the public Internet. 1 - https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=7...

Fair enough! I watched the video again and still dont understand what the problem is or what's being solved, but yes - there's the act!

It connects the dots through - Amazon seems to be claiming their drivers are exempt from something due to being contractors, and this bill will enforce those undefined somethings to be enforced.

> This bill would require operators of certain warehouses and storage facilities from which goods are delivered to final consumers in the City to obtain a business license from the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. This bill would set forth the conditions of such license, which would include safety, training and employment requirements. This bill would also set forth enforcement options, including those available to the City and to workers.

The bill text itself seems to be more about hiring / firing practices than trucks.

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