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Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

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Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#81

Post by maleldil »

MBCook wrote: post #41
Barrin92 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So McDonald's has a monopoly on the Big Mac? yes, that's called a differentiated product in economics and it confers market power the same way any other monopoly does, Sony controls the Playstation ecosystem, Apple its ecosystem and it gives them leverage over the consumer, those products are not commodities. That's why pharmaceuticals, patented medical devices or cable and broadband providers are regulated, see net…

And thats the solution. Not lawsuits. Regulation.

This lawsuit is trying to enforce an existing EU regulation.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#82

Post by derektank »

axus wrote: post #56
keoneflick wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sony does not fully abide by these rules. If you buy a digital game or in-game content, Sony will only ensure that you can do so through its own PlayStation Store. I have assumed that retail locations will continue to sell game codes, just not game disks, post disks going away. Currently there are games from like Just Dance that only include a game code in the retail box rather than game CD because of the way the g…

Unlike a disc, you can't use the code without going through the PlayStation Store. And you likely cannot resell it, either. You can't buy a non-Sony PlayStation, I guess they'll argue it's similar.

It does seem like a reasonable middle ground would be something like selling a dongle that provides PIV attestation of ownership, that could be resold and could even be used across platforms. Of course, there’s no incentive for the console manufacturers to offer this.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#83

Post by zamadatix »

ekianjo wrote: post #72
zamadatix wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This same kind of note seems to come up repeatedly in threads like this with no regard to a similar question ever having been thought up or discussed every other time the topic comes up. Different brands of course, but I'm not sure I've actually seen a net new discussion of this point here in years. The usual answer is: If Sony raises the price of games in it's store, Sony denies 3rd party stores, and Sony removes th…

> then there are a significant number of people no longer able to consider open market dynamics in picking which low dollar game to buy next as they have massive (in comparison) investments in the platform. Nothing prevents them from selling their Sony console and moving on

How can they sell their PlayStation library with it? Sony'll ban accounts that even try and Sony isn't allowing physical libraries be built anymore. Replacing a platform starts to pick up a lot of extra baggage once the company behind it controls more than the platform itself, even if you count switching the literal base platforms like that as frictionless.

Ignoring the above for a moment, this is exactly the kind of "exactly how much interference is problematic rather than good business" debate I was referring to. Obviously it's harder to sell a PlayStation and get another system than it is to eat a different burger that day. And obviously this is easier than if the burger joints in the region collude to raise prices on Saturdays but how impactful is it? Well, that's precisely the debate. Most side long before "it'd be impossible for an individual to do anything at all about it" but even that isn't universally held.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#84

Post by andai »

braiamp wrote: post #38

If people actually read the claims... it's about fair business practices, this is why they are suing Sony: > ... In the EU, it is forbidden for large companies to abuse their position to make more profit at the expense of consumers. Yet Sony does not fully abide by these rules. > > If you buy a digital game or in-game content, Sony will only ensure that you can do so through its own PlayStation Store. Sony keeps the…

So it's surprising to me that this is against the law.

Is it an EU law, or a Dutch one?

Does that mean this also applies to Apple, Steam, etc.?

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#85

Post by MBCook »

999900000999 wrote: post #75
MBCook wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s not. Laws are. Why ask that the fire doors in a building are unlocked when it’s on fire? Maybe they just shouldn’t ever be locked.

Ok. Even then you'd only be able to install specific PS5 software. Which no one can build without a license from Sony.

You could easily make the law require you have that ability.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#86

Post by axus »

derektank wrote: post #82
axus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike a disc, you can't use the code without going through the PlayStation Store. And you likely cannot resell it, either. You can't buy a non-Sony PlayStation, I guess they'll argue it's similar.

It does seem like a reasonable middle ground would be something like selling a dongle that provides PIV attestation of ownership, that could be resold and could even be used across platforms. Of course, there’s no incentive for the console manufacturers to offer this.

That would be kind of impressive if Sony had a "used digital games" marketplace and took a cut of every trade, without sending any to the publisher.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#87

Post by HDBaseT »

andai wrote: post #84
braiamp wrote: post #38

If people actually read the claims... it's about fair business practices, this is why they are suing Sony: > ... In the EU, it is forbidden for large companies to abuse their position to make more profit at the expense of consumers. Yet Sony does not fully abide by these rules. > > If you buy a digital game or in-game content, Sony will only ensure that you can do so through its own PlayStation Store. Sony keeps the…

So it's surprising to me that this is against the law. Is it an EU law, or a Dutch one? Does that mean this also applies to Apple, Steam, etc.?

The argument is that on PlayStation, the only option you have going forward is via the 'PlayStation Store'.

Previously, you could buy a physical disc from GameStop, Walmart or trade with your friend. Now you are locked into one company. This isn't about digital or physical, its about there only being one option.

Your question drags in Steam (Valve) but I question how they operate even remotely like this? You can build or buy any PC, install Steam on it, or not. You can download games from 30 different platforms, including DRM free ones. You can still purchase some (albeit limited) games on disc from other retailers. You are by no means REQUIRED to use Steam. You can use any hardware (not just Valve hardware) and use any store. How does this relate?

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#88

Post by vrganj »

ekianjo wrote: post #71
braiamp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the heck are you talking about? Both Apple and Google were hit by the EU anti-gatekeeping law. I am not going to engage with the rest since it's based on a supposition that is plainly wrong.

So Apple in the EU allows for alternative app stores?

Yup. https://rileytestut.com/blog/2024/04/17/introducing-altstore...

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#89

Post by bryanlarsen »

wilg wrote: post #80
braiamp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PS5 was breaking even less than 6 months after its release. They don't subsidize anything. BTW, Nintendo also don't subsidize it. The BOM of the Switch 1 and 2 is lower than the total price including the margins for retailers!

This is a conversation about Sony, not Nintendo. As far as I can tell from current data, Sony is still subsidizing PlayStation consoles overall.

Sony stopped subsidizing the PS5 8 months after launch.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/sony-says-499-ps5-no-longer-sells...

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#90

Post by keoneflick »

CivBase wrote: post #76
keoneflick wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sony does not fully abide by these rules. If you buy a digital game or in-game content, Sony will only ensure that you can do so through its own PlayStation Store. I have assumed that retail locations will continue to sell game codes, just not game disks, post disks going away. Currently there are games from like Just Dance that only include a game code in the retail box rather than game CD because of the way the g…

Why on earth would I go to a game store to buy a code?

Because they have a better price?
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