Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

academic.oup.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 223 posts

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#81

Post by sigmoid10 »

siren2026 wrote: post #71
sigmoid10 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eliminate all screens after sundown. It's literally the nr 1 reason why people struggle. I used to as well (I could easily work in front of a monitor until 4am without getting tired with no coffee or anything). After that, avoid any bright white lights in the evening (usually kitchen/bathroom). It's not always possible, depending on your work and place of living and especially while travelling. I ended up getting ext…

I tried all those things, none worked. You are assuming every brain is wired like yours. It has been proven multiple times that we all have different hormonal levels during the day based on the light patterns. Some people only produce melatonin several hours after it's getting dark. Your assumption of a world where we all behave the same regarding sleep is one of the reason why the US became such a bad 6AM hustle cul…

You are conflating several aspects here. The 6am hustle culture originated during the industrial revolution in Britain.

And the reason why people struggle with melatonin cycles is because it is almost impossible to escape artificial light. A single bright light exposure at night can acutely alter your hormonal levels. I'm not saying that what I have done is easy or even possible for everyone.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#82

Post by ventana »

siren2026 wrote: post #67
Itchyjohn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to completely stop caffeine, best to cut nicotine too. It's worth it. Watch out for caffeine In cola etc.

Why is it worth it? Why are you fighting against your natural circadian rhythm? We still all got 24 hours right? My background is that as the poster above, I have always been a night owl, with the ability to function and wake up earlier if I need to. For years I have tried to change it because of beliefs like yours that it was "worth it". Whenever I tried to change it I would feel unergetic, crappy and unmotivated. I…

That's either before, or after you have kids (if ever). As long as the school starts, you have (almost) no choice.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#84

Post by namanyayg »

magicalhippo wrote: post #72
PeterStuer wrote: post #42

Tangentially: as a 'young adult' I was a typical 'night owl'. Cognitivly I peaked between 10pm and 3am, typically slept from 4am to 11am. When I got kids and a more 'regular' job, I was forced to change to a more normal schedule. The transition from 'owl' to 'lark' was not easy. It took about 7 years. These days, I peak 7am to 1pm.

I too found myself most productive after 9 pm. But when I moved on my own I found that it shifted quite naturally. I'd wake up earlier and go to bed earlier, and then productive peak shifted to be during working hours. I think for me the key factor was primarily that the house was quiet after 9 pm. When I was on my own it was quiet all day.

Exactly the same experience and I try to wake up with natural sunlight as much as possible.

The productivity and mental boost from that is incomparable.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#85

Post by alfiedotwtf »

DANmode wrote: post #7
mutagen wrote: post #4

This thesis appears to be related or the underlying research: https://d.lib.msu.edu/etd/51312 Indicates 2mg and 5mg were given along with the placebo. While these are common dosages available in the US, these are higher dosages than recommended by at least some sleep experts. The thesis doesn't seem to differentiate between the dosages when evaluating cognitive processes. Now I want to evaluate my sleep stack against…

5 is almost universally too much. 4 is almost universally too much.. 3 is the most I’ve ever recommended. More than enough.

5 as in milligrams?! I’ve found 10mg is sometimes just enough, but 20-30mg is where I actually feel a noticeable difference

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#86

Post by margor »

maccard wrote: post #75
margor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, sure. I would love to find a natural or lifestyle remedy to common RLS or PLMD symptoms that I get from time to time. The problem is that for some people it's impossible to identify what are the triggers and sometimes it's just genetics you have no control over. But sure, do tell people to avoid doctors and make them suffer even though there are drug remedies that don't cause dependence and augumentation.

Being charitable to OP, I think their advice is to look after your health before hyper focusing on your sleep. I’ve had a similar experience - the better I care for my body the better my sleep is (and the opposite is a self reinforcing cycle). For me, personally, CBT and therapy helped hugely with the feelings of overwhelm I got from feeling like I wasn’t getting enough sleep and gave me the tools to deal with the fa…

I could be convinced, however for me personally sleep defines how I feel throught the day, and if my sleep is bad or not restorative, it's almost impossible to take care of myself and adhere to "being healthy and mindful" because it requires just too much energy I won't have.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#87

Post by remuskaos »

siren2026 wrote: post #70
PeterStuer wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not an option. Kids need a regular schedule with school and things. It was rough though. I did not ever drink coffee before that time, but starting then I needed several cups just to avoid accidents in the morning.

School starts way too early. That's something we need to change. I grew up in Europe and school started at 9AM. Which allowed for an 8AM wake up. Unlike here where my kids need to wake up at 6AM. Absolutely ridiculous

"I grew up in Europe" can literally be any one of over 40 different countries, and even more education systems.

I am in Germany, and school starts at 8 in Berlin, 8:05 in Wiesbaden, 7:45 in some small cities in Baden-Württemberg... And those are only the ones that I, personally, experienced. I'm sure Poland and Spain have different times, not lastly owing to timezones etc.

Please don't treat all of Europe as one single country with one set of customs.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#88

Post by andrepd »

siren2026 wrote: post #68
bodash wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I’m also a night owl who struggled waking up like an early bird. Was the transition and efforts worth it? Recently I tried to find a better schedule other than spending another X years fighting my biological clock

As a night owl who tried to fight it for too long my advice is don't change your natural circadian rythm. For some reason hustle influencer culture made us believe we should wake up at 6AM for a productive day. We all have 24 hours, just do what works for you. Most of Europe doesn't wake up that early. Only the US is obsessed with 4AM hustle culture. Stop that! I tried to change my sleep for 10 years and for the last…

It's silly to say that "Europe" has substantially different working hours for the majority of the population, compared to the US. Grindset hustle sigma influencers are an outlier of course.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#89

Post by theusus »

siren2026 wrote: post #68
bodash wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I’m also a night owl who struggled waking up like an early bird. Was the transition and efforts worth it? Recently I tried to find a better schedule other than spending another X years fighting my biological clock

As a night owl who tried to fight it for too long my advice is don't change your natural circadian rythm. For some reason hustle influencer culture made us believe we should wake up at 6AM for a productive day. We all have 24 hours, just do what works for you. Most of Europe doesn't wake up that early. Only the US is obsessed with 4AM hustle culture. Stop that! I tried to change my sleep for 10 years and for the last…

Waking up at 6 AM and doing workout did wonders to my mental health.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#90

Post by siren2026 »

sigmoid10 wrote: post #81
siren2026 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried all those things, none worked. You are assuming every brain is wired like yours. It has been proven multiple times that we all have different hormonal levels during the day based on the light patterns. Some people only produce melatonin several hours after it's getting dark. Your assumption of a world where we all behave the same regarding sleep is one of the reason why the US became such a bad 6AM hustle cul…

You are conflating several aspects here. The 6am hustle culture originated during the industrial revolution in Britain. And the reason why people struggle with melatonin cycles is because it is almost impossible to escape artificial light. A single bright light exposure at night can acutely alter your hormonal levels. I'm not saying that what I have done is easy or even possible for everyone.

The thing is that we all have different natural thresholds. This paper was eye-opening to me: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36799668/

Essentially some people will naturally delay sleep multiple hours after the last light. It is believed it might be an evolutionary mechanism to not have every single person asleep at the same time.

And I don't care where hustle culture started. It is more alive than ever in America.

Post reply on HN