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A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

arxiv.org

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Re: A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

#81

Post by foxglacier »

ctoth wrote: post #48
foxglacier wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you would thrive without a job long term? I know it's very easy to feel that way when you're working because your pay is proof that you're doing something valuable, the requirement to do your job even when you don't feel like it ensures you don't fall into a spiral of laziness, and you don't have to face the inevitably worse reality of actually doing those things you want instead of just imagining them.…

> what force would continue to drive you even after your kids have grown up and there's nothing of value you can do for another human? Building things I'm interested in with and for people I care about. That might look like code or gardening or relationships or all sorts of things. There's so much to do. So many things to want to get out of bed for, and for the days when there aren't, slow cozy mornings are nice too.…

Yes, caring for people might be the one thing that remains. I can't imagine gardening or programming would be very satisfying in post-scarcity-land where you're inevitably doing something entirely useless compared to what machines would do.

Re: A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

#82

Post by foxglacier »

Nursie wrote: post #50
foxglacier wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you would thrive without a job long term? I know it's very easy to feel that way when you're working because your pay is proof that you're doing something valuable, the requirement to do your job even when you don't feel like it ensures you don't fall into a spiral of laziness, and you don't have to face the inevitably worse reality of actually doing those things you want instead of just imagining them.…

Outside of work I am a hobby brewer, I have a lot of home maintenance that needs doing, and landscaping that uses up a lot of my time. Give me stability and no job, I'm still going to be a busy person. These things have value and satisfaction for me.

You say "will" but have you been without work for many consecutive years and continued to do those things? Unemployed people tend to neglect their homes! It's much easier to imagine doing that work than to actually do it. I know. I've been on both sides of the coin. It's shocking how abundance can destroy motivation.

Re: A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

#83

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #80
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold of you to claim to know better what other people's sources of meaning are.

Wasn't it, though? Wonder where I picked up that habit.

AI?

Re: A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

#84

Post by ctoth »

foxglacier wrote: post #81
ctoth wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what force would continue to drive you even after your kids have grown up and there's nothing of value you can do for another human? Building things I'm interested in with and for people I care about. That might look like code or gardening or relationships or all sorts of things. There's so much to do. So many things to want to get out of bed for, and for the days when there aren't, slow cozy mornings are nice too.…

Yes, caring for people might be the one thing that remains. I can't imagine gardening or programming would be very satisfying in post-scarcity-land where you're inevitably doing something entirely useless compared to what machines would do.

But ... I'm already not a very great gardener? Certainly not compared to an industrial megafarm? No where near as efficient?

And it is still fun!

We already live in the world where machines (or at least cyborgs, man + machine) garden better than humans, and yet there are human gardeners out here pulling weeds by hand, digging in the dirt for fun, happy to share our often funky-looking vegetables with friends.

Re: A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

#85

Post by Nursie »

foxglacier wrote: post #82
Nursie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of work I am a hobby brewer, I have a lot of home maintenance that needs doing, and landscaping that uses up a lot of my time. Give me stability and no job, I'm still going to be a busy person. These things have value and satisfaction for me.

You say "will" but have you been without work for many consecutive years and continued to do those things? Unemployed people tend to neglect their homes! It's much easier to imagine doing that work than to actually do it. I know. I've been on both sides of the coin. It's shocking how abundance can destroy motivation.

I’ve taken six+ months off between contracts before, it’s been amazing. Time to spend with friends doing outdoor pursuits like cycling, time to do all the things work stops me doing.

I don’t believe being in a state of unemployment, which is crushing because you can't provide for yourself, is the same thing as not working because you don’t need to work.

I already do a lot of home maintenance and landscaping, I have an house that needs work and 5 acres to maintain, more or less solo. I spend lunchtimes and most weekends in it and wish there was more time in the day. There’s no imagining going on here.

So yes, I believe ‘Will’ is correct for me.

Re: A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

#86

Post by euroderf »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #75
euroderf wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Player Piano is great. The ending is kind of upbeat and hopeful: If there's no "work" as such, there's always "hobbies" (or whatever you could call it) - ways to feel AND BE useful and to better the world and the lives of others.

Fear and Loathing in the Magic Kingdom touches on this. In a post-scarcity economy, what do you do? Work and hobbies kinda blend.

> Work and hobbies kinda blend.

That's the ruling economic ideology - that it's the employee's responsibility to find fun and self-actualisation in the workplace. "Nice work if you can find it."

Re: A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

#87

Post by foxglacier »

Nursie wrote: post #85
foxglacier wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "will" but have you been without work for many consecutive years and continued to do those things? Unemployed people tend to neglect their homes! It's much easier to imagine doing that work than to actually do it. I know. I've been on both sides of the coin. It's shocking how abundance can destroy motivation.

I’ve taken six+ months off between contracts before, it’s been amazing. Time to spend with friends doing outdoor pursuits like cycling, time to do all the things work stops me doing. I don’t believe being in a state of unemployment, which is crushing because you can't provide for yourself, is the same thing as not working because you don’t need to work. I already do a lot of home maintenance and landscaping, I have a…

I see. Sounds like you're future-proofed. I know some retired people also have a pretty good life with their hobbies and family. But I doubt most people will cope well - especially young men who never even had profession or any way to feel worthwhile, except perhaps gaining power over other people - which seems to be what happens in contexts where there's nothing real to strive for.

Re: A taxonomy of omnicidal futures involving artificial intelligence (2025)

#88

Post by miohtama »

le-mark wrote: post #8

I recently read Kurt Vonnegut “Player Piano”, a novel that addresses automation taking over the economy. It’s not explicitly AI but addresses the same issues. Published in 1952, it was Vonneguts first novel and a real product of the post war era.[1] Another interesting read that addresses these themes is “Manna – Two Views of Humanity’s Future” by Marshal Brain [2] [1] https://antilogicalism.com/wp-content/uploads/20…

Another AI-infused, Metaverse-infused future book is Vernor Vinge's Rainbow's End.

We are not so far from it anymore.

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