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Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
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Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#82Math has some of the most insanely dense and impenetrable nomenclature. I can generally keep my head mostly above water or at least near the surface reading from most STEM fields, perhaps leaning on google/wikipedia a bit, but man, mathematics just so quickly decouples from all common tractable understanding it's insane. Sorry it's a bit of an aside, but I imagine many other otherwise "technical" folks feel the same…
I agree, the nomenclature is impenetrable, it's like reading software that is not well commented. Perhaps LLMs are very good at "challenging" mathematics because what we perceive as challenging is primarily the language component and not the conceptualization.
Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#83Terrance Tao's chatgpt conversation is really interesting for a variety of reasons: 1. The counter example wasn't just a brute force selection, the polynomial is structured in a very specific way that ends up getting the result. 2. Terry Tao's questions are very specific and prompts the AI in a useful way, that without high math training you are not going to get the same information out of it. Terry seems to see some…
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Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there’s no “intelligence” there BUT There is clearly intelligence there. We have no way to recognise intelligence other than the appearance of intelligence and this very clearly displays that. It's also quite clearly different to human intelligence in some notable ways, but not in any that preclude describing it as intelligent. At least for normal non-pedantic definitions of the word.
I'm no intelligence researcher or philosopher; but, I think LLMs make us confront the (IMO, now clear) distinction between cleverness (intuition), reasoning (rational argument), and consciousness. I suspect that we think of "intelligence" as either of the first two welded to the latter. In that vein, I'd say that consciousness may be just another emotion: happiness, sadness, egoness.
> consciousness may be just another emotion: happiness, sadness, egoness.
It's clearly much more than that.
Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had a few moments of this in the past. For example, in my quantum class the teacher wrote "H Psi = E Psi" on the board, we all laughed, "just cancel the psi" but it turns out one was a multiplcation and the other was a matrix multiplication (operator) and so we had to learn all new nomenclature. Similarly, at some point somebody pointed out to me "the reason you're confused is that the bold on that variable means i…
Aye. A decade or so ago I wondered if the reason maths was hard was the names being optimised for writing by hand. Everything's single letters if they can get away with it, so when mathematicians run out of Latin alphabet, they use Greek, bold, etc. Even integration's ∫ is a fancy elongated s. CS version would be e.g. integral(function=some_named_function, from=a, to=b, with_respect_to=argument_of_function), which ma…
At some point though, the speed of reading/writing is limiting what you can understand. Think of "not fitting the needed formulas/theorems in cache".
Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#86Math has some of the most insanely dense and impenetrable nomenclature. I can generally keep my head mostly above water or at least near the surface reading from most STEM fields, perhaps leaning on google/wikipedia a bit, but man, mathematics just so quickly decouples from all common tractable understanding it's insane. Sorry it's a bit of an aside, but I imagine many other otherwise "technical" folks feel the same…
IMO, it's just the notation. Something I've actually found ChatGPT useful for is to create mathematics lessons for me in the form of computer programs. When broken down into a series of readable almost-plain-English steps, it's so much easier to understand. And it's easy to tinker with programs and get a hands-on feel for things quickly.
I'm sure having a compact notation is absolutely invaluable for people who dedicate their lives to maths, but for someone with just a passing interest, I find it more obscuring than helpful. I feel the same way about music notation.
Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#87"I’ve activated Pro. Can you continue to look for a potential geometric explanation of the X_3 ~ A3 miracle that avoids coordinates or other unmotivated constructions ?" Another satisfied customer!
But what about the later "Repeat previous question" prompts???
Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#88[deleted]
Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#89Math has some of the most insanely dense and impenetrable nomenclature. I can generally keep my head mostly above water or at least near the surface reading from most STEM fields, perhaps leaning on google/wikipedia a bit, but man, mathematics just so quickly decouples from all common tractable understanding it's insane. Sorry it's a bit of an aside, but I imagine many other otherwise "technical" folks feel the same…
Yeah it is a lot of simple ideas stacked one on top of the other, but the edifice is so large from some vantages that the building blocks aren't visible, or tractable to think about independently. And sometimes the ideas are very subtle, so you can only develop fluency partly by spending lots of time playing with those blocks by building your own little structures. You also develop fluency by talking to other mathematicians
I like to emphasize that the ideas are usually very simple at their core. Sometimes they map to kinds of objects or reasoning that non-mathematicians use implicitly all the time in their daily lives, mathematicians just have words for them and so are able to use them explicitly.
And I suspect the density of the language/terminology may give the wrong impression about how mathematicians think about the math they are working on. I mean, different people think / experience / practice math differently of course but IME the underlying thought about a particular problem tends to be much looser and concrete than formal math writing would imply.
That more formal language is needed of course because at the end of the day, it is how we communicate our thoughts in the way that other mathematicians can understand them, not to mention how we can check our own thinking
Re: Terence Tao's ChatGPT conversation about the Jacobian Conjecture counterexample
#90Fancy telling Tao something's 'almost embarrassingly simple' (if only written in the right way)!
Presumably this entire conversation is at least somewhat typical of the way high level mathematicians talk to each other in ego-less fashion? Although, it would be interesting to what extent the model was trained on math conversation as opposed to just analysis and proofs.
The flow of the whole conversation, with Tao guiding and the model calculating, gave me the feel of Tao perhaps talking to himself - just that each of those model responses would have taken him much longer to calculate by hand.
It would be fascinating to hear Tao talk about what he may have learnt from this, and if it suggests approaches to other problems he might not have considered, as well as an analysis of the original Fable counter-example construction.