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That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

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Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#81

Post by zdragnar »

wilg wrote: post #21
axus wrote: post #17

"Thus, anyone who wants to corral that kind of entity and make it do their bidding? Yeah, they want slaves." Always comes to mind when I see Elon and friends getting excited about AI robots. Slavery was more about economics than the role-playing.

Slavery was about racism and power and control, not economics. Slavery is bad for the economy! https://www.nber.org/papers/w31758 https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/nations-dont-get-rich-by-plund...

"Slavery was about racism and power and control" is very much not universal. Slavery existed (at varying scales) around the entire world for much of human history for a variety of things. Sometimes, as in US history, there was typically a racial difference between owners and slaves, other times it was a difference of conquered and conquering peoples, and other times it didn't have anything to do with race at all.

Race might be a decent analogue to the difference between human actors and sentient AI, but I suspect work animals (plow horses, etc) would be a better analogy.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#82

Post by TZubiri »

tptacek wrote: post #50
TZubiri wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it's more important to hold. It's easy to hold one position and then falter, there's a pressure to always be with the times and not be 2 years demodé, but simple positions still hold true. I wrote in the opencode thread that when it came out I put it behind a vm and its own user, and I never allowed it to run outside of it. But I know of people that as soon as they noticed that it worked well like 99% of…

It's not even clear what claim you're trying to make about AI here. "Dangerous", I guess? What does that have to do with its parrotude?

That just because a problem has existed for years, it doesn't mean the problem is gone or that it's no longer appropriate to make the same warnings and precautions as when it first came out.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#83

Post by boogieknite »

grey-area wrote: post #6

> The worst part is that everyone who's decided to willingly lobotomize themselves is going to have to come to the realization that these things are full of shit. It'll have to happen one by one, and nobody else can make it happen for them. A fascinating dichotomy has become apparent between those who trust LLM output and those who don’t and don’t understand why you would. Surely if the machine you go to for answers…

even worse when managers, while sharing their screen, read an assertion from Gemini and take as fact. puts subordinates in a position where theyre responsible for challenging the assertion (if warranted) and, in a way, challenge their manager's decision making

not saying anything new. easy enough to frame it like any other assistant and check references

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#84

Post by tptacek »

TZubiri wrote: post #82
tptacek wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even clear what claim you're trying to make about AI here. "Dangerous", I guess? What does that have to do with its parrotude?

That just because a problem has existed for years, it doesn't mean the problem is gone or that it's no longer appropriate to make the same warnings and precautions as when it first came out.

I'm not asking whether you can justify your belief that AI is dangerous. I'm asking what it has to do with what species of bird it most resembles. I'm being serious about that. What do I have to learn from the claim that an LLM is a stochastic parrot?

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#85

Post by arjie »

There was that one Waymo they set on fire in Chinatown but I was around for CNY[0] and the streets that weren’t explicitly walled off by barriers had drivers going down them too.

As an aside, what’s the problem with the extra traffic? Perhaps she has a lot of traffic but nginx can return a 404 with a tiny amount of CPU.

0: https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/Blog/2024-02-24/Chinese_New_...

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#86

Post by Revisional_Sin »

perching_aix wrote: post #48
randusername wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet there will be a very interesting generational divide between the kids that were born before or after about 2010; old enough to have some critical thinking facilities at the dawn of ChatGPT when it was still noticeably dumb.

Pretty sure it already exists, and it's the same as always: the younger you are, the better you adapt. It's painful to watch my older colleagues use their agents, and they're not even that much older. Like they were intentionally trying to sabotage themselves sometimes. They're getting better, but the time it takes for them to pick things up is just significantly longer, not the least because they're kind of just thr…

What mistakes do they make?

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#87

Post by glitchcrab »

arjie wrote: post #85

There was that one Waymo they set on fire in Chinatown but I was around for CNY[0] and the streets that weren’t explicitly walled off by barriers had drivers going down them too. As an aside, what’s the problem with the extra traffic? Perhaps she has a lot of traffic but nginx can return a 404 with a tiny amount of CPU. 0: https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/Blog/2024-02-24/Chinese_New_...

I highly doubt that the extra traffic is really the problem, it's merely the catalyst which caused this post to be written.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#88

Post by TZubiri »

sudobash1 wrote: post #67
TZubiri wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays not just big orgs are falling into the delusion, but also big people. When Linus posted that AIs and vibecoding were here to stay and declared resistance to it as harmful, I stopped to consider whether I was wrong, but it has made me realize that in retrospect Linus Torvalds and Linux itself aren't actually the holy grail of computing. I didn't feel that way with Richard Dawkins, its not like falling for an…

When did he post that "vibecoding" was here to stay? He is allowing AI generated code, and AI linting tooling in kernel development, but importantly, the expectation of human responsibility and review remains. This seems a far cry from vibecoding.

Besides the subjectives, here are two objective policy stances that Torvalds is defining for the Linux kernel development:

1- Maintainers are allowed to commit LLM generated output.

2- Criticism of LLM generated code is not welcome/will be ignored.

Now, whether that constitutes being pro-Vibecoding or pro-agentic engineering, whether it's delusion, whether it will have problems, that's subjective. But I feel that whatever way you look at it, it's a topic that polarizes engineers, and Torvalds is taking one side and not the other. It doesn't seem to me that it's a very neutral stance, although it may be more neutral than projects like Bun or OpenCode of course, if it feels neutral, it's cause the overton window is shifting.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#89

Post by jraph »

arjie wrote: post #85

There was that one Waymo they set on fire in Chinatown but I was around for CNY[0] and the streets that weren’t explicitly walled off by barriers had drivers going down them too. As an aside, what’s the problem with the extra traffic? Perhaps she has a lot of traffic but nginx can return a 404 with a tiny amount of CPU. 0: https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/Blog/2024-02-24/Chinese_New_...

It's likely not performance concerns. I suppose she just monitors her logs meticulously and notices stuff. 404 errors can be a witness of a broken link she should fix on her site or get fixed on external sites. She probably looks for them and notices URLs that look credible. She might still look for broken RSS readers too. Or just suspicious things.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#90

Post by recursive »

grey-area wrote: post #6

> The worst part is that everyone who's decided to willingly lobotomize themselves is going to have to come to the realization that these things are full of shit. It'll have to happen one by one, and nobody else can make it happen for them. A fascinating dichotomy has become apparent between those who trust LLM output and those who don’t and don’t understand why you would. Surely if the machine you go to for answers…

> Surely if the machine you go to for answers regularly makes things up you would just stop using it? Perhaps people have to be burned by something really bad personally before they realise the limitations? LLMs are very convincing and persuasive.

Psychics are still in business. Although to be fair they probably don't have as much revenue. I think people really enjoy being told how smart and insightful they are, and how much they've really cut to the crux of the issue. This isn't the whole thing, but I think it counts for a lot.

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