Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

localnewsmatters.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 401 posts

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#81

Post by ak217 »

nojito wrote: post #33
bmitc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. Where and how is that determined? I.e., any references to back that up? And you can't in one breath say they have the best healthcare but then say their employees' reports of their experience are unreliable.

Not sure if you’re serious but just search the name Kaiser in any research search engine. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ Their secret sauce is their ability to standardize protocols throughout their entire organization.

Well then their protocols suck. I have many anecdotal data points about them fumbling in major ways when it matters (missed major pathologies, messed up surgeries, etc.).

If you have a choice of hospital networks, research carefully. Kaiser might be fine for many people's needs, it's not fine when it comes to intensive care.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#82

Post by cj »

caycep wrote: post #73
neaden wrote: post #3

If you think using a machine to evaluate how well a human is showing empathy is a good idea, you probably shouldn't have any position of power.

sadly, this is happening more as medicine and healthcare become more and more corporate. Seeing this as hospitals all get acquired into these mega health systems (ostensibly to fight the now merged mega health insurance companies), that then like to throw their weight around.

Thank you private equity.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#83

Post by Xeoncross »

caycep wrote: post #73
neaden wrote: post #3

If you think using a machine to evaluate how well a human is showing empathy is a good idea, you probably shouldn't have any position of power.

sadly, this is happening more as medicine and healthcare become more and more corporate. Seeing this as hospitals all get acquired into these mega health systems (ostensibly to fight the now merged mega health insurance companies), that then like to throw their weight around.

I can't imagine why people are looking into alternative healthcare

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#85

Post by doodlebugging »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #57
doodlebugging wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. Somehow that might appear to be incentive to improve quality of care but maybe their corporate culture is a bad fit for quality.

Psychopaths don't care about other peoples pain. Some MBA only care about their own ego, power, and money. They do well in corporate cultures that reward parasitic relationships with customers. =3

Slurping their way up to the C-suite.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#86

Post by joe_the_user »

saltcured wrote: post #42
BeetleB wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AI is a lot cheaper. Kaiser nurses are amongst the highest paid in the nation.

Now let's talk about how AI could replace Kaiser middle management and streamline bureaucracy to preserve more budget for doctors and nurses...

People enjoy saying "AI can replace middle management" as a comeuppance but it's not what people think. In many ways, AI is primarily serving as middle management, yes. But what happens is that instead of one manager engaging in petty surveillance, harassment and browbeating to increase work intensity, you have ten clones of the manager doing the same thing. That's not the "woo hoo, automated middle management!" you were looking for.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#87

Post by jagged-chisel »

Xeoncross wrote: post #83
caycep wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sadly, this is happening more as medicine and healthcare become more and more corporate. Seeing this as hospitals all get acquired into these mega health systems (ostensibly to fight the now merged mega health insurance companies), that then like to throw their weight around.

I can't imagine why people are looking into alternative healthcare

What alternative?

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#88

Post by doodlebugging »

teachrdan wrote: post #68
doodlebugging wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. Somehow that might appear to be incentive to improve quality of care but maybe their corporate culture is a bad fit for quality.

> that might appear to be incentive to improve quality Their goal isn't to provide high quality care. Their goal is to increase profits. It's not hard to imagine how improved quality would lead them to spend more money. (faster diagnoses of serious illnesses and recommending expensive care)

Indeed, increasing quality tends to increase costs and decrease profits so keeping costs aligned with their profit goals automatically degrades quality.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#89

Post by pydry »

9x39 wrote: post #74

It sucks because AI reduces call center costs in many toil tasks very effectively, regardless of whether you want to help or dissuade customers - it's just well-suited to the task and it's going to accelerate. It's a win for capital and the technology implementers, even if it's a loser for the call center employees and callers. Some of the tech is pretty scary. One big vendor's solution [0] can provide not just AI ag…

90% of the time when I call a call center I need a human to fix an organisational bug - e.g. faulty billing or some other kind of mixup. AI cannot help with this.

If it's to do something normal you could do through the website there was no need for AI - a website or app suffices - provided it isnt terrible.

Capital definitely thinks it can save costs here but capital is getting increasingly delusional these days.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#90

Post by doodlebugging »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #53
doodlebugging wrote: post #18

This problem with workplace AI interfering with nurses ability to manage healthcare obligations for their clients is not confined to Kaiser. UHC has also introduced the AI surveillance tools and are using it to do similar things.

It is true that Despotism structures major failing was the scaling cost of surveillance necessitated to differentiate fact from fictional narratives. Truth is most nurses care for people having the worst day of their lives. =3

The nurses in my family would agree with your assessment.
Post reply on HN