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China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

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Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#81

Post by swalsh »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #16
vitno wrote: post #13

If China manages to do this, then we will have people on Mars in under 2 years. Competition from china is the only thing I can see spurring the USA into action.

Far from. It takes nearly 2 years just to get to Mars. Also, China tends to be a fast copier , not a leader. They seem to leave the bulk of development costs to someone else. So I think it's unlikely that they will front the resources it'll take to make a Mars mission possible.

> China tends to be a fast copier, not a leader

Wasn't there a famous Chinese guy who said something like "never underestimate your adversary".

In the past that might have been true, but things change. Just one example A lot of people have been educated in the US, and are going back to china to start companies.

Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#82

Post by nitrogen »

blhack wrote: post #60
Synthetase wrote: post #9

It's odd that any mention of Elon Musk colonizing Mars results in rapturous worship. Other efforts, China in particular, seem to attract scorn. Especially in light of the fact that Elon Musk's original plan was to send a greenhouse with plants to Mars. Perhaps I over-estimate the HN crowd.

>Perhaps I over-estimate the HN crowd. Perhaps this has something to do with China's absolutely atrocious record regarding: 1) The environment 2) The rest of the world 3) Human rights -- Is it really that difficult to understand that some of us have the foresight to realize that China's method of interfacing with its environment is not something that we want to see tarnishing a yet-untarnished planet?

Is it really that difficult to understand that some of us have the foresight to realize that China's method of interfacing with its environment is not something that we want to see tarnishing a yet-untarnished planet?

What does it mean to "tarnish" a lifeless planet? Or even Earth for that matter? Every single kilogram of hazardous material on Earth was here long before humans evolved; all we're doing is moving around what occurs naturally. In the worst case, the same would be true of Mars.

Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#83

Post by apr »

iwwr wrote: post #66
takluyver wrote: post #33

How well could this work? On the plus side (for plants), the Martian atmosphere is about 95% CO2. Even though the total pressure of the atmosphere is much less than our own, the partial pressure of CO2 is still about 20 times higher (erring a bit on the generous side). On the other hand, Mars is about 1.5 times as far from the sun, so the intensity of sunlight is less than half, and temperatures are correspondingly c…

If you have a nuclear reactor or extensive solar panels, you may just as well use it to split CO2 into O2 and CO (monoxide gas can also burned as fuel). Plant photosynthesis is rather inefficient if your goal is a breathable atmosphere. If the goal is biomass for food, then just call up Monsanto for a few space-dense crops. It would probably easier to oversize the powerplant (to generate oxygen, growlights, melt wate…

If you burn CO as fuel you are producing CO2 back.

Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#84

Post by leot »

jlgreco wrote: post #78
angersock wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the verdant fields that could be reduced to red dust! Truly, an environmental catastrophe. They could render the planet uninhabitable. :(

Funny, but I think the actual concerns are more along the lines of "What happens if it works?" If they accidentally unleash an Earth origin extremophile, it would have the potential to taint any any life that may already exist on Mars. This hypothetical life on Mars probably isn't of any real use to us, obviously it isn't megafauna or something, but it would be of unspeakable scientific importance. The chance to stud…

If we find life on Mars, I'd wager it will end up being evidence for panspermia.

Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#85

Post by jlgreco »

leot wrote: post #84
jlgreco wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, but I think the actual concerns are more along the lines of "What happens if it works?" If they accidentally unleash an Earth origin extremophile, it would have the potential to taint any any life that may already exist on Mars. This hypothetical life on Mars probably isn't of any real use to us, obviously it isn't megafauna or something, but it would be of unspeakable scientific importance. The chance to stud…

If we find life on Mars, I'd wager it will end up being evidence for panspermia.

That is certainly a possibility. However contamination of Mars will make coming to that conclusion, if the evidence points to it, a great deal harder.

(Well, obviously contaminating Mars is itself panspermia, but not really of the interesting sort. A confirmed instance of "natural" panspermia would tell us a lot about what we can expect about the distribution of life throughout the universe.)

Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#87

Post by soperj »

nitrogen wrote: post #82
blhack wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Perhaps I over-estimate the HN crowd. Perhaps this has something to do with China's absolutely atrocious record regarding: 1) The environment 2) The rest of the world 3) Human rights -- Is it really that difficult to understand that some of us have the foresight to realize that China's method of interfacing with its environment is not something that we want to see tarnishing a yet-untarnished planet?

Is it really that difficult to understand that some of us have the foresight to realize that China's method of interfacing with its environment is not something that we want to see tarnishing a yet-untarnished planet? What does it mean to "tarnish" a lifeless planet? Or even Earth for that matter? Every single kilogram of hazardous material on Earth was here long before humans evolved; all we're doing is moving aroun…

That's not actually true. Case in point, cfcs.

Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#88

Post by stcredzero »

skrebbel wrote: post #11

> "If we establish a party branch in space, it would also be the 'highest' of its kind in the world," Xinhua quoted Yang as saying. Really, I love Chinese humor. It's underrated.

It works like this: Grade school kids running around have puns pop into their heads, so by the time they get to high school, they're over the obvious ones. However this only works for their native language.

This is why translated puns can sound very stupid. It's also why you're likely to sound stupid when you try to pun in Chinese.

Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#89

Post by jlgreco »

apr wrote: post #83
iwwr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a nuclear reactor or extensive solar panels, you may just as well use it to split CO2 into O2 and CO (monoxide gas can also burned as fuel). Plant photosynthesis is rather inefficient if your goal is a breathable atmosphere. If the goal is biomass for food, then just call up Monsanto for a few space-dense crops. It would probably easier to oversize the powerplant (to generate oxygen, growlights, melt wate…

If you burn CO as fuel you are producing CO2 back.

Also I'm not sure how useful CO fuel would be if you had electrical power already. Maybe splitting CO2 into CO and O2 only to later recombine could make sense as power storage? Maybe if you are using solar power and regular batteries aren't feasible for some reason, or maybe in a vehicle?

There might be uses for burning CO on Mars, but not as the byproduct of CO2 splitting for breathable oxygen.

Re: China prepares to grow vegetables on Mars

#90

Post by stcredzero »

scaphandre wrote: post #70
IheartApplesDix wrote: post #45

China has been doing great lately, but this sounds like a case of Icarus to me.

You've got it wrong. Mars is further from the sun.

> You've got it wrong. Mars is further from the sun.

Actually, this has been studied. There's enough sun with the right timing and thermal balance (provided the right kind of greenhouse) to grow food.

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