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Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

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Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#81
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Submarines can be hunted (and are) and drones and cruise missiles can be shot down. These things are what navies are supposed to do nowadays. US Navy in particular has not read the memo for about 20 years.

the question how efficiently they can be hunted, if ROI is that high.

my best guess is any information on the topic is... classified

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#82
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US will never recover from the reputation damage they sustained by voting in a mindbogglingly stupid buffoon. Twice.

Memories are short. Neither Andrew Jackson nor Nixon improved the reputation of the US.

The same Nixon whom JD Vance praised yesterday and called a victim of a deep state witch hunt?

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#83
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memories are short. Neither Andrew Jackson nor Nixon improved the reputation of the US.

Andrew Jackson was around 150+ years ago. Nixon was fairly competent diplomatically even if he was horrible domestically. Trump is a whole different breed that seems to switch his actions based on whim and who he spoke with last.

I remember having to listen to a lot of shit about Dubya and Co. during my backpacking trips overseas not too long ago.

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#84
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was an honest question.

I would point you to Gen MacKenzie's interviews as the reference on that question, I would just be regurgitating his views. He says that a sustained coastal invasion is not necessary. Raids would be necessary to destroy any buried weapons, but these troops wouldn't need to stay there. Other than this you need more of what they were already doing, "shaping operations" as he calls it, which is ISR drones overhead and l…

> Raids would be necessary to destroy any buried weapons, but these troops wouldn't need to stay there.

Shaheds can be launched from trucks from inside densely populated cities. Good luck with those raids.

> Eventually, because they don't have an industrial base and cannot effectively replenish their stocks

Modern drones are cheap and easy to assemble, Iran's allies (Russia, China) can easily smuggle them inside country.

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#85
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not new. These drones were in production in Iran since 2016 after the capture of the downed Reaper Drone in 2011. What is new is Irans willingness to use them. Which skyrocketed after a few missiles assassinated their supreme leader.

The part where you are wrong is not that reaper or other highly sophisticated drones were available in 2011. In 2026 we have swarms of cheap drones that are fire and forget and they are cheap for mass production. That’s totally different game.

So you are saying the US just showed to the world that it is not prepared for modern warfare?

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#86
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the question how efficiently they can be hunted, if ROI is that high.

my best guess is any information on the topic is... classified

Most powerful navy "failed its mission", as well as Russian navy received heavy casualties, so we have enough public information that modern drones and missiles are highly effective.

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#87
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not true. CENTCOM can reopen the strait whenever they want, but doing it is slow and expensive, so there is insufficient political will to do it. It's still a strategic defeat, but for different reasons than what you are saying. Recommend studying the public comments of General MacKenzie who was the previous CENTCOM commander, comments from Admiral Cooper before he was appointed to current CENTCOM comman…

> doing it is slow and expensive, so there is insufficient political will to do it So the US Navy is unable to achieve the objective in a reasonable timeframe and cost. That's the same as failure.

You can call it a failure, it's just not a military one.

Hell there's an argument to be made that the US should downsize its military because there's no universe in which exercising its full capability is not either the end of the world as we know it or absolute political suicide.

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#88
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was an honest question.

I would point you to Gen MacKenzie's interviews as the reference on that question, I would just be regurgitating his views. He says that a sustained coastal invasion is not necessary. Raids would be necessary to destroy any buried weapons, but these troops wouldn't need to stay there. Other than this you need more of what they were already doing, "shaping operations" as he calls it, which is ISR drones overhead and l…

Thanks for the info, I'll track down that interview. That is an interesting strategy that I didn't consider.

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fundamentally a failure of political leadership. You don't try to achieve a goal when you don't have the military means to achieve at a cost you are willing to bear. There are endless numbers of military objectives that the US military that could have been sent on where they would have had no chance to succeed. That they generally weren't is a function other administrations, however bad, not being so embarras…

>at a cost you are willing to bear. It's pure greed. The IRGC relies heavily on oil money for funding the massive militia (hundreds of thousands of Basij) that allows it to stay in power; if that income collapsed then it would eventually lose control. Trump however not only refused to bomb Iran's oil infrastructure but even stopped the IDF from doing so, just because he thinks he'll somehow be able to take that oil f…

Bombing Iran's oil infrastructure would give Iran the casus belli to do a like for like strike on the GCC countries. Imagine strikes on Fujairah port, the Aramco, ADNOC and QatarEnergy refineries on the Gulf Coast, as well as the Yanbu and Habshan pipelines.

That means effectively taking out 25℅ of global oil supply -> oil at 150-200 a barrel -> Trump and the Republicans lose the midterms badly -> Trump gets impeached. I'm sure somebody explained it to him that this is exactly what would get happened, which is why he did not overextend or let Israel do so.

Re: Ships keep moving through Hormuz despite strike

#90
post #44

So, Trump claimed the closure and the attack "was a “foolish violation” of the ceasefire". However - that is not the case. The first and foremost item of the Iran-US MOU is the following: 1 — The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran and their allies in the current war are signing this MOU to declare the immediate and permanent termination of military operations on all fronts, including in Lebanon…

Iran never had the right to close the strait or attack neutral merchant ships exercising their right of innocent passage in the first place, regardless of anything that Israel or Lebanon does. The MOU doesn't change that.

The US and Israel never had the right to attack Iran in the first place
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