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Data centers trigger voter backlash

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#81

Post by sunrunner »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #70
yardie wrote: post #6

A few months ago the founders of the top AI companies walked into Capitol Hill. Tried to explain to a room full of elected representatives exactly how their technology was going to put almost half the working population into under/unemployment and they should consider UBI [0]. Then they went back to the airport, got on their corporate jets, and went home secure in the knowledge that they really showed them. That they…

[flagged]

It's hard for people to see a socialist benefit when everything about the current version of AI seems like it's going to have an intensely focused capitalist outcome throwing us all simultaneously forwards and backwards into technofeudalism.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#83

Post by paul7986 »

cogman10 wrote: post #38
yardie wrote: post #6

A few months ago the founders of the top AI companies walked into Capitol Hill. Tried to explain to a room full of elected representatives exactly how their technology was going to put almost half the working population into under/unemployment and they should consider UBI [0]. Then they went back to the airport, got on their corporate jets, and went home secure in the knowledge that they really showed them. That they…

> no one I know gives a shit about the energy consumption or water usage. They do when the knowledge of the resource consumption is paired with "Which will directly lead to your electric/gas bill going up." People are also paying attention to the fact that the politicians aren't paying attention to the people. Nobody is even trying to sell the benefits of a datacenter in people's backyard. Instead, politicians are be…

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#84

Post by Jtsummers »

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #72
Jtsummers wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is that I have more faith in China to prevent mass unemployment than I do in the US. I wouldn't. They'll just handle it differently than we would in the US. https://tradingeconomics.com/china/unemployment-rate - It's around 5% per this (and some other sources I found, just linking the one). The population being around 1.4 billion people, that means around 70 million unemployed. That is already mass u…

"Mass unemployment" can't be based on raw numbers instead of rate, as otherwise no small country could have it.

Alright, what's the threshold? Is the 15% youth unemployment enough to indicate mass unemployment within that demographic at least?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#85

Post by kentm »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #70
yardie wrote: post #6

A few months ago the founders of the top AI companies walked into Capitol Hill. Tried to explain to a room full of elected representatives exactly how their technology was going to put almost half the working population into under/unemployment and they should consider UBI [0]. Then they went back to the airport, got on their corporate jets, and went home secure in the knowledge that they really showed them. That they…

[flagged]

> if there is UBI?

At least in the US, the public simply does not trust that the United States government will consider such a thing. They won't even consider universal healthcare. No-one is going to go "OK we trust you, you can build your data-centers now and we'll talk about UBI once you've 'disrupted' our jobs."

Yes, a bunch of CEOs are making the rounds talking about it, but talk is cheap. Even if that talk is directed at congress. Have any of them even cleared the flow bar of funding research into how it'd work and what the policy would look like?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#86

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

esafak wrote: post #74
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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How confident are you that the UBI hand out is going to be anywhere near what you made while working?

0.

It doesn't have to be. Social cohesion and not having to work are already major benefits.

UBI is already premised on the fact that top earners will have to give something up if UBI is going to make sense. I've been relatively blessed, but I know no one's future is guaranteed. Thinking one has to only best accrue their own pile in a world of disruption doesn't make sense. Eventually the Bastille gets stormed. Why not get ahead of it and avoid the terror? Why burn the data center?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#88

Post by stvltvs »

Jtsummers wrote: post #36
user3939382 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people care about their power bill. Water in some regions is a hot political issue. Data centers don’t create jobs of course, we don’t need anyone to answer that.

"Some regions" being a a bit of an understatement, the US west and southwest are experiencing (or about to experience) severe water shortages and disruption due to the current water shortages.

Lake Mead is projected next year to be at its lowest level since it was filled by the creation of Hoover Dam. The states on the Colorado River have been fighting over the dwindling water for decades. Locals care about water.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#89

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

pesus wrote: post #79
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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We have a higher chance of the world ending than getting UBI in America. This is a country that can't even get basic universal healthcare going. Even if we did somehow get UBI, with who's controlling the country, there's almost no chance it wouldn't be abused to control people. Losing your job means losing your livelihood and often your life for the vast majority of people. That's not even getting into any loss of pu…

This is fair but I mean as long as people are agitating politically it seems like going after the data center is going after the wrong end of the equation, with similarly difficult odds of success.

If you are trying to take on the hyperscalers why not push for UBI vs trying to stop the buildout? Is the former really that much more difficult than the latter? Is it even good policy beyond not wanting something in your own backyard?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#90

Post by pesus »

jesse_dot_id wrote: post #82
cdrnsf wrote: post #14

Nothing this technology offers is, to me, worth the noise pollution or increase in water and electricity rates.

Technology evolves and your opinion will evolve with it.

You're right, but that doesn't mean opinions will evolve towards viewing the technology more positively. With AI, it's increasingly the opposite.
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