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Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

clinicaltrialsabundance.blog

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Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#81

Post by Izkata »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #70
freediddy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? This isn't talking about long term risk at all. This is within 28 days of the 2nd dose. That is well within the reach of a clinical trial. The clinical trial should have detected this, but it was rushed. Plain and simple. The narrative was that everyone should be vaccinated. The data and science showed that not only did young people have an incredibly low, almost non-existent risk from COV…

> The narrative was that everyone should be vaccinated And that's still true for everyone that lives in human society. The disease killed ~7 million people and would have killed far more without the vaccine. Almost all of the deaths were in the vulnerable, like is the case for most diseases. Vaccinating the entire population protects the vulnerable. The moral choice as one of the not-vulnerable is to either get vacci…

> Vaccinating the entire population protects the vulnerable.

Only if it prevents spread, which was still an open question while it was being pushed in early 2021 and known to not work by the end of 2021.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#82

Post by Izkata »

bulbar wrote: post #74
freediddy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? This isn't talking about long term risk at all. This is within 28 days of the 2nd dose. That is well within the reach of a clinical trial. The clinical trial should have detected this, but it was rushed. Plain and simple. The narrative was that everyone should be vaccinated. The data and science showed that not only did young people have an incredibly low, almost non-existent risk from COV…

> The clinical trial should have detected this, but it was rushed. Plain and simple. No, that is wrong. Trials generally don't detect very rare side effect that only occur for some special subgroups. They would have to have tested 100.000 males That's also only talking about one particular side effect, more interesting would be a comparison of all-cause mortality, because that's more likely what you are interested in…

> That's also only talking about one particular side effect, more interesting would be a comparison of all-cause mortality, because that's more likely what you are interested in: Does the vaccine increase or decrease my chance of dying soon?

This is from memory but I think there were 16 deaths in the vaccine group and 14 or 15 in the control group in Pfizer's short-term safety trial of around 40k participants. None of the deaths were obviously vaccine related and it was statistically insignificant so the results were dismissed due to not being obviously bad.

They also lost track of a huge number of participants (like 200-400?), and never figured out why. It's entirely possible they died and the safety profile world be completely different if they were included.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#83

Post by Izkata »

linuxftw wrote: post #52
hobonation wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sometimes said the opposite, sadly: CDC Director Rochelle Walensky- March 2021 statement: Walensky told MSNBC: "Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick. And that it's not just in the clinical trials but it's also in real world data."

And we know this was an outright lie, because the clinical trials did not include contracting the virus as an endpoint. In fact, in Pfizer's data, they only used PCR tests on symptomatic people, rather than periodic testing. So to say the clinical trials reflected absence of infection is a deliberate lie. Either they knew what the data said and lied, or they didn't know what the data said and stated they did, which i…

Pfizer didn't lie. If you go back to their press releases they were careful to distinguish SARS-CoV-2 from COVID-19, the result being that they said you wouldn't get sick while saying nothing of infection/spread. It was the media and politicians that started that.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#84

Post by bryanlarsen »

Izkata wrote: post #81
bryanlarsen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The narrative was that everyone should be vaccinated And that's still true for everyone that lives in human society. The disease killed ~7 million people and would have killed far more without the vaccine. Almost all of the deaths were in the vulnerable, like is the case for most diseases. Vaccinating the entire population protects the vulnerable. The moral choice as one of the not-vulnerable is to either get vacci…

> Vaccinating the entire population protects the vulnerable. Only if it prevents spread, which was still an open question while it was being pushed in early 2021 and known to not work by the end of 2021.

It didn't work well because the vaccination rate didn't reach herd immunity levels. It still helped.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#85

Post by bulbar »

Izkata wrote: post #82
bulbar wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The clinical trial should have detected this, but it was rushed. Plain and simple. No, that is wrong. Trials generally don't detect very rare side effect that only occur for some special subgroups. They would have to have tested 100.000 males That's also only talking about one particular side effect, more interesting would be a comparison of all-cause mortality, because that's more likely what you are interested in…

> That's also only talking about one particular side effect, more interesting would be a comparison of all-cause mortality, because that's more likely what you are interested in: Does the vaccine increase or decrease my chance of dying soon? This is from memory but I think there were 16 deaths in the vaccine group and 14 or 15 in the control group in Pfizer's short-term safety trial of around 40k participants. None o…

> so the results were dismissed due to not being obviously bad.

Not sure if 'dismissed' is the correct phrasing. The results were statistically analyzed as it's always done with empirical studies.

> They also lost track of a huge number of participants (like 200-400?), and never figured out why. It's entirely possible they died and the safety profile world be completely different if they were included.

Sounds like that were the drop outs which is normal for empirical studies. In general, that phrasing sounds to me that somebody tries to frame something that's super normal (drop outs) to something questionable and mystical.

I don't mean you, but the source you used back then.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#86

Post by pseudohadamard »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #73

One wonders why this was flagged. It appears to be a high quality and non-combative analysis of how we were able to advance vaccine development so quickly without losing safety or efficacy?

What @daveguy said, it talks about Covid and vaccines, two conspiracy-theory hot buttons so of course it'll get flagged the minute it's posted. If you also throw in Epstein, Soros, and Hunter Biden's laptop it'll practically make it self-flagging.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#87

Post by swordsith »

chimprich wrote: post #12
davydm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> And they were rushed out This implies that corners were cut. They were not. They went through the full regulatory procedures. > many people still sit with the issues they caused Few medicines are entirely without side effects. The effects of the virus were in general far worse. Millions of lives were saved from the vaccines. > Not a win Apart from the millions of lives that were saved. > at the very least, they red…

Myocarditis and blood clots aren't a side-effect, they are life altering and ending.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#90

Post by tinfoilhatter »

softwaredoug wrote: post #43
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

His claims are that because of this sequence of events “Fauci caused Covid” - Fauci led NIAID - NIAID funded EcoHealth (an external non profit) - EcoHealth sent some money to Wuhan labs - Maybe Covid comes from a leak of Wuhan labs You can decide for yourself if Fauci is just a boogeyman or has personal responsibility in this chain of “maybes” By this logic Trump cause Covid because he was President at the time.

Trump was certainly in on it, as was Biden, along with the rest of their Jesuit pals.
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