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No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

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Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#81

Post by tonyedgecombe »

morkalork wrote: post #14
dlenski wrote: post #9

I read about 60% of it and skimmed the rest and my conclusion is: Man, I just. don't. care . Why should I worry about this hypothetical future dystopia, which seems to me incredibly unlikely to come to pass, rather than the glaring and terrifying current dystopia being enacted by Donald Trump in the USA?

At this point I'm like, if it happens it happens. There's no point caring because I'm the equivalent of an ant in the grand scheme of things.

Not being part of the problem is the base level for me. Beyond that I think you need to be fairly stoical about the whole thing.

Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#82

Post by smitty1e »

I'm generally encouraging my two high schoolers toward:

- trades

- military service

...or some blend of the two, i.e. SeaBees or Army Corps of Engineers.

White collar/tech chops are fine as far as they go, but know how to swing a hammer or turn a wrench, say I.

Eschew debt; remain sober; stay married (not in the modern, ersatz sense); be a productive member of the community of faith.

Ain't no magic.

Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#83

Post by conorcleary »

sixtyj wrote: post #65
oceanplexian wrote: post #10

Yeah, who am I going to trust, a few thousand years of history, or yet another blogger claiming that no, this time is different, a populist uprising would definitely not fail the 800th time because computers or something and we will all be pets for the AI overlord? I don’t follow this train of logic. AI will go no differently than the Industrial Revolution. Some people will profit immensely, and society as a whole wi…

This. Once people become desperate enough, it will all fall apart. Money is a social construct, universally recognized, and the longer it exists, the more likely it is to continue existing. So far, many people haven’t even tried AI in any form other than chatbots. Agent-based applications are in the single digits compared to chatbot usage. Not much will change in this regard, because most people lack algorithmic or l…

HN is an encho chamber shaped like a cheese grater

Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#84

Post by Walf »

BosunoB wrote: post #68

Is a human zoo such a bad outcome? We stake our identities on being in control and on top, but do we need to be? Clearly the author is invested in his image of us as rulers—this is an emotional appeal as much as a pragmatic one. Say we solve the pragmatic argument of our extinction, and our AIs view us, as Geoffrey Hinton likes to say, how a mother views her baby? Then we give up our control to them, and in return we…

It doesn't have to be about ruling, but self-determination is something a great many value quite highly, and think there should be more of. AI controlling all of humanity removes that from the equation entirely. You should be free to live like a cow if you so wish, and it should remain your choice to, or not to. Your choice to should not remove that choice from others.

Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#85

Post by Nevermark »

keiferski wrote: post #78
Nevermark wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI will go no differently than the Industrial Revolution. So it is different this time is it? "We" are different? Unlike the 99.9% of species that went extinct, and continue to go extinct, we can't be supplanted? Obsoleted? Out competed? [0] A few thousand years at the top of the food chain, and suddenly that few thousand years is "what can never change". Technological change already drives machine cognitive progre…

Sci-fi is science fiction. Fiction. LLMs are a useful technology. They have no relation to AI terminator bots other than being called the same name out of marketing and laziness.

> Sci-fi is science fiction. Fiction.

Yes, that is what "fi" means. Fiction often introduces and explores ideas about the future. Ideas.

> LLMs are a useful technology. They have no relation to AI terminator bots

Technology that can communicate with human language. Also relevant, other SOTA models operating in other modalities.

The important thing if you reference SciFi, are the major ideas that stand on their own merits. Whereas, specific characters, such as terminators, are usually not predictive.

You are actually underlining my point. The disconnect a lot of people are struggling with is real.

Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#86

Post by keiferski »

Nevermark wrote: post #85
keiferski wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sci-fi is science fiction. Fiction. LLMs are a useful technology. They have no relation to AI terminator bots other than being called the same name out of marketing and laziness.

> Sci-fi is science fiction. Fiction. Yes, that is what "fi" means. Fiction often introduces and explores ideas about the future. Ideas. > LLMs are a useful technology. They have no relation to AI terminator bots Technology that can communicate with human language. Also relevant, other SOTA models operating in other modalities. The important thing if you reference SciFi, are the major ideas that stand on their own me…

People aren't struggling with a disconnect, they just aren't buying into the hand-waving hype.

Not everyone is convinced that LLMs are somehow going to lead to the extinction of humanity. So far, you've done very little argumentation here, so I remain pretty unconvinced.

The actual dangers from LLMs are many, but deal more with humanity's using them and neglecting to think for themselves, relying on them to make decisions, and so on – not some fantastical nonsense from reading too many sci-fi books.

Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#87

Post by Nevermark »

keiferski wrote: post #86
Nevermark wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sci-fi is science fiction. Fiction. Yes, that is what "fi" means. Fiction often introduces and explores ideas about the future. Ideas. > LLMs are a useful technology. They have no relation to AI terminator bots Technology that can communicate with human language. Also relevant, other SOTA models operating in other modalities. The important thing if you reference SciFi, are the major ideas that stand on their own me…

People aren't struggling with a disconnect, they just aren't buying into the hand-waving hype. Not everyone is convinced that LLMs are somehow going to lead to the extinction of humanity. So far, you've done very little argumentation here, so I remain pretty unconvinced. The actual dangers from LLMs are many, but deal more with humanity's using them and neglecting to think for themselves, relying on them to make deci…

You keep saying LLMs. But models across many modalities are rapidly improving, evolving and merging.

Not sure what you mean by "hand waving" or "fantastical nonsense". Maybe just address points I actually make.

1. Machines with greater cognitive ability than us, potentially much greater, would be an economic challenge for human beings. With no clear answer as to how humans could manage that challenge.

2. Machines are getting more capable, year-to-year, faster than any human can or ever will improve. With no signs of slowing, or any areas where they are failing to improve.

3. None of this is new. Computing capabilities have compounded steadily since the first transistors less than a century ago. Human's biologically driven cognition, in contrast, has not improved.

4. Machine capabilities are now regularly passing us in new areas, and rapidly approaching the general threshold noted above.

Explain your perspective, I am genuinely interested.

For instance, what cognitive capability do you have, that you believe machines won't exceed within 5 years.

Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#88

Post by piva00 »

sixtyj wrote: post #65
oceanplexian wrote: post #10

Yeah, who am I going to trust, a few thousand years of history, or yet another blogger claiming that no, this time is different, a populist uprising would definitely not fail the 800th time because computers or something and we will all be pets for the AI overlord? I don’t follow this train of logic. AI will go no differently than the Industrial Revolution. Some people will profit immensely, and society as a whole wi…

This. Once people become desperate enough, it will all fall apart. Money is a social construct, universally recognized, and the longer it exists, the more likely it is to continue existing. So far, many people haven’t even tried AI in any form other than chatbots. Agent-based applications are in the single digits compared to chatbot usage. Not much will change in this regard, because most people lack algorithmic or l…

> How much biological material would that be?

Much less than bacteria and other micro-organisms that are dying all the time :) humans are ~0.01% of Earth's biomass, bacteria are about 15% and they have quite short lifespans in comparison.

Re: No-One Escapes the Permanent Underclass

#89

Post by bsenftner »

zetalyrae wrote: post #25
bsenftner wrote: post #23

It's thinking like this that guarantees one becomes a member of the underclass. We've developed a technology that with active critical analysis this can teach one practically anything. Rather than saying "well, let's get on teaching critical analysis!" we have the vast majority shouting the sky is falling and they are sure glad to be retiring soon. SMH.

For every person using AI as a personal tutor there's a hundred people using it to produce AI slop articles, slop scientific papers, slop short stories, to checck out of living and let the AI do all their thinking and writing and creation. Voluntary disempowerment is already here!

For many, this is how they learn. They are experience learners, which is the vast majority. This overwhelming condemning of people learning, not being excellent first try, always comparing against the famous top tiers of everything is Lord Of The Flies. Fuck it: make slop, swim in slop, and emerge smarter. Condemn those experiencing and trying and learning is the stupid slop.
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