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The Doorman's Fallacy in action

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Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#81

Post by godelski »

Joker_vD wrote: post #72
godelski wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that money is saved for the company Sure, but you're not taking into account how much it costs the company. This is the definition of "penny wise, pound foolish". Nothing is really "free" Here's a good example: you know how every terminal begs for tips? And the percentage is increasing? (In San Jose I saw by middle number as 25%!!). It looks free, but guess what, I'm more likely to not come back and press "no tip"…

> Nothing is really "free". There are economies of scale though, plus expertise. That's why we normally buy clothes instead of spinning, cutting, and sewing textiles ourselves.

  > There are economies of scale though
Which is explicitly what my comment is about

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#82

Post by senordevnyc »

3-cheese-sundae wrote: post #39
simianwords wrote: post #15

People have now clung on to doorman's fallacy as a way to justify keeping outdated jobs around. There should be a new fallacy named for this phenomenon otherwise we would have people justifying having travel agents jobs and translator jobs being protected.

I am curious to hear why you believe those roles don't provide any value.

lol, they didn't say that!

A job can provide lots of value and still be worth automating overall. There's a reason almost no buildings have doorman, the only places where you can't pump your gas are because there's a legal prohibition, and essentially no elevator operators exist anymore.

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#83

Post by _jackdk_ »

devindotcom wrote: post #12
rwmj wrote: post #5

What the article misses is that money is saved for the company by moving the work to the customer / end user. It's the same thing with sending parcels, where I must now sit on my computer at home filling in a complicated online form and printing out my own labels. This takes me like 30 minutes, but saves time and money for the Post Office (not for me!) There's no downside for the company here, especially when they ar…

Don't forget self check out at the grocery store. I don't mind personally (I find ways to make it worth my while..) but it's a version of the same thing. Shifting labor under the guise of convenience. Like all the other versions of this, the savings are absorbed by the company, not passed on to the consumer. It's rare that the opposite happens.

I used to get paid to scan groceries. I have no intention of doing it for the same companies for free.

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#84

Post by dylan604 »

paxys wrote: post #74

The real fallacy is your assumption that the business doesn’t expect the hit in customer experience. In reality they have thought about the consequence and made the conscious decision to not care.

Alamo Draft House recently-ish lost the plot. They were famous for being very anti-phone. They have now switched their food/drink service to on your device which means you have to use your phone during the movie which is precisely why I preferred to go there. You also report someone using their phone by using your phone. They even acknowledge this with a "we recognize the irony" slide during their "this is a phone free environment" segment.

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#85

Post by senordevnyc »

The more I think about it, the more dumb the premise of this "fallacy" sounds.

I lived in a doorman building in NYC for almost a decade. It's great!

It's also really expensive to have your building entrance staffed 24/7, which is why the vast majority of buildings do not have a doorman, and you'll pay quite a bit more for one that does. It's a luxury.

And literally anyone who has ever lived in a doorman building knows that approximately 2% of the value is that they can open the door for you. No one who is deciding whether to employ doormen is making their decision based on whether there's a cheaper way to open the door.

There might be a fallacy here beyond "sometimes automation isn't worth it", but doormen are a terrible example of it, given that probably 99.999% of buildings do not have doormen, and wouldn't be better off financially if they did.

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#86

Post by wdrw »

chowells wrote: post #78
irjustin wrote: post #68

I am on the other end of the spectrum. I enjoy QR ordering. I dislike talking to people. Upselling me is not a thing. I can take as long as I want. I don't have to flag/bother someone. No one screws it up except me. I see exactly what's on my bill.

You're describing an interaction with a good server at a good business. (Off of peak hours, if you can take hours and they don'thave anything to say about it.) What do QR codes add except for technical issues? I honestly cannot recall the last time a server tried to upsell me with even as much as a "do you want a dessert?". But... I suppose that's selection bias. I only go to restaurants that don't require servers to…

I would not be at all comfortable, with a human server, making them wait while changing my selection multiple times (no I want it with the ginger sauce... no, without... no actually the sesame sauce... no actually I don't even want that dish, I'll take the other one), googling 10 different unusual ingredients while I make these changes, etc. And especially if I'm part of a larger party that shares food, or with kids, makes it all the more complicated. I just... am not ok with the social cost of it, even if a "good server" would be ok with it. (And who says you'll get a "good" one?). Whereas with digital ordering it's literally just zero-cost button clicks. And zero chance of error. I really don't see how it's even comparable, digital ordering is such a step forward. (Obviously not in all settings, like fancy dining, but for the mainstream).

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#88

Post by scoofy »

I cannot recommend Rory Sutherland's book Alchemy enough.

It is up there with great book for me like Taleb's Incerto series when it comes to deeply interesting ideas I would not have noticed if they hadn't been pointed out to me.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26210508-alchemy (the subtitle of this book seems to be different in different countries)

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/series/INO/incerto/

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#89

Post by [deleted] »

ValentineC wrote: post #35
ralferoo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My supermarket has the handheld scanners and they are a game changer. They fit handily into the trolley if you want and you just scan stuff as you go. If you want 8 of something, you can just tap the item and increase the quantity, none of the having to scan each one and add it carefully to the bagging area, etc... And best of all, at the end you just scan a self checkout screen (and they have special ones as well wi…

> Oh, and maybe Decathlon deserve a special mention here for their self-service checkouts. Every item has an RFID price tag usually sown into the care labels of their own-brand products. They don't have a self-scan machine, handheld or otherwise, you just drop everything you picked up into the box, it scans all the RFID tags and makes sure the weight is correct, and it's all done. Uniqlo too. I guess it helps that th…

[deleted]

Re: The Doorman's Fallacy in action

#90

Post by irjustin »

chowells wrote: post #78
irjustin wrote: post #68

I am on the other end of the spectrum. I enjoy QR ordering. I dislike talking to people. Upselling me is not a thing. I can take as long as I want. I don't have to flag/bother someone. No one screws it up except me. I see exactly what's on my bill.

You're describing an interaction with a good server at a good business. (Off of peak hours, if you can take hours and they don'thave anything to say about it.) What do QR codes add except for technical issues? I honestly cannot recall the last time a server tried to upsell me with even as much as a "do you want a dessert?". But... I suppose that's selection bias. I only go to restaurants that don't require servers to…

I won't fall for it. Been down that road and I'm not going back.
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