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Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

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Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#81

Post by ryanx435 »

pg wrote: post #72
ryanx435 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

note: typing on a smart.phone sucks balls. ha ha! I knew you would have commented on this article and tried to debase it even before I opened the comment section! it seems to me that the entire business of YC relies on there being a market for the exact type of start ups that this article describes as a waste of human talent. It is in your (pg's) best interest to kill this article because if there is a bubble, and it…

When formulating this elaborate theory, did you stop to ask yourself why it would be in our interest to fund shitty startups when all the returns are concentrated in the most successful ones?

because the bubble hasn't popped yet. you fund start ups for the same reason people bought houses a few years ago: the market is still willing to pay ridiculous prices for things with little to no actual value. and the fact that you.have reduced your funding to 80k per start up and also reduced the number of companies you are funding to, what, about 64 or something?, only confirms this theory. you are reducing your risk as well as your market exposure. the problem.is.that you can't get completely out.of the game because.if you did then investors would see that the market is collapsing.and.there would be no liquidity for the.startups you've already funded. you are too high profile to just stop.funding.new companies. its a catch 22. you aren't getting the quality of startups you want, but you have to fund something (that's what YC does), so you just find the best you can find.. you are essentially polishing.turdps and passing them off as gold.

edit: I just realized, there is no way that pg can respond to this. he cant confirm my ideas, because that would admit that there is a bubble and would be very much against his personal long term interests. he also can't deny my arguments because by responding to some random troll on the internet ( me), he lends credibility to what I'm saying, which would only confirm that I am at least partially right, which would, again, be against his long term personal interests. his only winning play is to not respond at all. but crazily, now that I've said this, I've essentially tipped his hand. the non response response is now considered a response because I called him out on it. by not responding he is saying that my arguments hit too close to home to respond to. they are not easily dismissed by a flipant comment.

I suppose he could always hide behind saying that he didn't see my response to his response.

... fuck it, pg, don't respond. I hereby declare that you not responding means that my arguments are wrong. I concede.

I also hereby declare that I am just a random troll on the internet and my ideas should not be taken seriously. this is especially true on hacker news because they break the standard circle jerking that goes on. you guys just keep living in your fantasy world, and ill keep on living in mine.

Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#83

Post by tptacek »

ryanx435 wrote: post #81
pg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When formulating this elaborate theory, did you stop to ask yourself why it would be in our interest to fund shitty startups when all the returns are concentrated in the most successful ones?

because the bubble hasn't popped yet. you fund start ups for the same reason people bought houses a few years ago: the market is still willing to pay ridiculous prices for things with little to no actual value. and the fact that you.have reduced your funding to 80k per start up and also reduced the number of companies you are funding to, what, about 64 or something?, only confirms this theory. you are reducing your r…

It's one of the ideals of this site that we "don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation". But in threads like this, you're kind of glad that things like this could only be said here, if only so you don't have to wipe little flecks of spit off your face.

Given opportunities, I disagree with our site's owner probably more often than not, and even I think this site would be better if it was moderated more aggressively and less transparently by him, at least with regards to submissions. This was a stupid story and it produced a stupid thread and everyone can see that, and yet 'pg can't suggest the obvious and react to it without being beset by anonymous Internet trolls, all of whom have valiantly set aside the billions of dollars their intimate knowledge of the tech product market should be making them in order to spend their time here educating us on how exploited YC founders must be.

Stop being such a wuss, Paul, and start torching these threads. Burn them with fire.

Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#84

Post by ryanx435 »

tptacek wrote: post #83
ryanx435 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the bubble hasn't popped yet. you fund start ups for the same reason people bought houses a few years ago: the market is still willing to pay ridiculous prices for things with little to no actual value. and the fact that you.have reduced your funding to 80k per start up and also reduced the number of companies you are funding to, what, about 64 or something?, only confirms this theory. you are reducing your r…

It's one of the ideals of this site that we "don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation". But in threads like this, you're kind of glad that things like this could only be said here, if only so you don't have to wipe little flecks of spit off your face. Given opportunities, I disagree with our site's owner probably more often than not, and even I think this site would be better if it was moderat…

shut up.

two things: 1) I would say all of this to pgs face if we were discussing this. he is a man, not a god, and if he can't handle criticism than he should do some personal reflection and work on that. disagreements are not necessarily bad. 2) you obviously can't counter my argument, otherwise you would have done so. you have added nothing to.this discussion except tried to debase my arguments and ideas by essentially calling me rude. who cares if my presentation is rough if the ideas are good? idiots, that's who. this is life, not preschool.

edit: you edited your comment after I posted. I respond.to your edits by saying that pg doesn't need you to white.knight for.him and you should stop being such a brown noser.

Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#85

Post by tptacek »

ryanx435 wrote: post #84
tptacek wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the ideals of this site that we "don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation". But in threads like this, you're kind of glad that things like this could only be said here, if only so you don't have to wipe little flecks of spit off your face. Given opportunities, I disagree with our site's owner probably more often than not, and even I think this site would be better if it was moderat…

shut up. two things: 1) I would say all of this to pgs face if we were discussing this. he is a man, not a god, and if he can't handle criticism than he should do some personal reflection and work on that. disagreements are not necessarily bad. 2) you obviously can't counter my argument, otherwise you would have done so. you have added nothing to.this discussion except tried to debase my arguments and ideas by essent…

shut up.

Wouldn't it be funny if that was all it took to get me to shut up? :)

Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#86

Post by ryanx435 »

tptacek wrote: post #85
ryanx435 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

shut up. two things: 1) I would say all of this to pgs face if we were discussing this. he is a man, not a god, and if he can't handle criticism than he should do some personal reflection and work on that. disagreements are not necessarily bad. 2) you obviously can't counter my argument, otherwise you would have done so. you have added nothing to.this discussion except tried to debase my arguments and ideas by essent…

shut up. Wouldn't it be funny if that was all it took to get me to shut up? :)

wouldn't it be funny if you not responding and you responding had the exact same effect because you don't add anything to the conversation?

its like it doesn't even matter if you shut up or not.

Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#87

Post by bovik »

ryanx435 wrote: post #79
bovik wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're actually willing to engage in this discussion, then here's your answer. YC and (other "incubators" like it) are basically opportunistically exploiting cheap/free labor of thousands of naive (mostly) young developers to play the lotto on the cheap. You throw in a laughably small amount of money for a good chunk of equity, encourage your young charges to go forth on a steady diet of ramen noodles and ketchup…

you will probably be interested in this article that appeared ok Forbes awhile ago, entrepreneurs are the new labor: www.forbes.com/sites/venkateshrao/2012/09/03/entrepreneurs-are-the-new-labor-part-i/ its a long read, but worth it. it basically covers and expounded.upon the ideas you presented in your comment, that the incubators are exploiting the entrepreneurs

Just read Parts I and II of that article. Really interesting perspective. I've been talking to some recent YC "grads" in the valley and the amount of brainwashing they seem to have undergone is just shocking. And yet, so many more keep flocking to them year after year like lambs to the slaughter. Amazing.

Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#88

Post by lotharbot »

ryanx435 wrote: post #81
pg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When formulating this elaborate theory, did you stop to ask yourself why it would be in our interest to fund shitty startups when all the returns are concentrated in the most successful ones?

because the bubble hasn't popped yet. you fund start ups for the same reason people bought houses a few years ago: the market is still willing to pay ridiculous prices for things with little to no actual value. and the fact that you.have reduced your funding to 80k per start up and also reduced the number of companies you are funding to, what, about 64 or something?, only confirms this theory. you are reducing your r…

> "there is no way that pg can respond to this."

Of course he could.

He could point out that the meta-comment-game wherein any response whatsoever is considered to "lend credibility" is a silly game, and that in reality, whether or not he chooses to respond to you says nothing about your credibility. Then he could agree or disagree with your actual point, and either confirm or challenge your credibility with facts, instead of engaging in the silly distraction of a side-game.

Your arguments must stand or fall on their own merit.

On their own merit, I find your arguments lacking. In particular, you are lacking concrete examples. The list of YC companies is known (http://yclist.com/ and http://ycuniverse.com/ycombinator-companies). Surely if pg was getting "ridiculous prices for things with little to not actual value" you could identify some specific companies the market overpaid for, and the effect that overpayment had on overall yc returns.

Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#89

Post by ryanx435 »

lotharbot wrote: post #88
ryanx435 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the bubble hasn't popped yet. you fund start ups for the same reason people bought houses a few years ago: the market is still willing to pay ridiculous prices for things with little to no actual value. and the fact that you.have reduced your funding to 80k per start up and also reduced the number of companies you are funding to, what, about 64 or something?, only confirms this theory. you are reducing your r…

> "there is no way that pg can respond to this." Of course he could. He could point out that the meta-comment-game wherein any response whatsoever is considered to "lend credibility" is a silly game, and that in reality, whether or not he chooses to respond to you says nothing about your credibility. Then he could agree or disagree with your actual point, and either confirm or challenge your credibility with facts, i…

I actually agree with you. honestly I was surprised pg even responded to my first comment! I was like a dog who caught a car: I didn't know what to do with it. so I went meta (probably unsuccessfully) to see if he would respond again. I think I flubbed it, but than again you responded, so who knows? I guess ill find out tomorrow when I wake up and check. really, I'm not good at this.

Re: Let's All Shed Tears For The Crappy Startups That Can't Raise Any More Money

#90

Post by ryanx435 »

bovik wrote: post #87
ryanx435 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you will probably be interested in this article that appeared ok Forbes awhile ago, entrepreneurs are the new labor: www.forbes.com/sites/venkateshrao/2012/09/03/entrepreneurs-are-the-new-labor-part-i/ its a long read, but worth it. it basically covers and expounded.upon the ideas you presented in your comment, that the incubators are exploiting the entrepreneurs

Just read Parts I and II of that article. Really interesting perspective. I've been talking to some recent YC "grads" in the valley and the amount of brainwashing they seem to have undergone is just shocking. And yet, so many more keep flocking to them year after year like lambs to the slaughter. Amazing.

in theory, what YC does is good for our society. they provide mentorship and opportunity to new companies and help lead them to success. I have no problem whatsoever with YC's existence nor with the people they fund. I just don't want to be involved. they don't offer very much money at alli and they get too much influence and power over the start up for my tastes. I realized by pg's response that it wasn't for me. I wrote up why, and posted it. I was honestly not expecting him to respond.

but than again I also agree with the original articles premise that there is another tech bubble of stupid companies and it is about to go bust. and I think YC actively contributes to the problem by funding companies with terrible ideas. they want their funded companies to be aquihires because than they get their return. YC doesn't care if the business is sustainable or not as long as it gets bought. that's their schtick: they do the training instead of the universities.

this will affect me if and when I decide to get outside funding because investors won't be willing to invest as much. it will be exactly like after the internet bubble where there is no market to sell investors on the company. that is what concerns me. I'm not looking for an aquihire. I'm not looking for an exit. I'm looking to build a sustainable company that brings value to my customers.

note: not trolling you, these are my actual concerns.

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