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Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

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Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#81

Post by jauntywundrkind »

ErneX wrote: post #74
mlmonkey wrote: post #65

Such a shame that a country with the world's largest proven oil reserves is so much in debt and poverty. Lesson for the rest of the world is: you go against the USA, prepare to suffer. Of course, s/USA/China/ or s/USA/Russia/ above in a few years time.

We are not in the shithole we are because “we went against the USA”. The US was our biggest business partner. Our problem was we elected a coupster moron that destroyed our economy. It was our own doing.

Sounds like we were maybe made for each other (alas alas alas).

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#82

Post by ErneX »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #33
legitster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. Without even changing the party in power, Trump can pretend Venezuela is reformed and do all of the economic normalization a liberal president never would have gotten away with. But the back-to-back policy disasters are otherwise a good reminder that a broken clock is only right twice a day.

> economic normalization You mean the looting

Man we were getting looted all these years, how else do you think we are now 240 billion in the hole and with 9 million Venezuelans spread all around the world?

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#83

Post by mrguyorama »

kipchak wrote: post #61
rurp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fabulous win in what ways, and for who? I'm genuinely asking, as I haven't followed the country much. From what I have read the same corrupt repressive regime, the one that ran the country into the ground, is still in place while the democratic opposition that had shown some life in recent years has gone silent.

The pro argument I find most convincing is that the US's interest is mostly in restricting oil going from Venezuela to China, which previously was the majority destination of of Venezuela's imports. A similar case can be made for Iran. China possibly expecting something to this effect has recently built up both it's coal and renewables capacity, as well as an extremely large SPR.

Any claim at all that Trump is running any sort of strategy against China blows right up the second you look at anything else he has done.

All his bullshit market screwing, tariffs, poor diplomacy has pushed everyone right into China's sphere of influence.

Instead of competing with the products China creates, we leave them out of our own market while the rest of the world continues to buy from China.

The stupid as hell war against Iran has eliminated our stocks of munitions, leaving the pacific basically undefended against China. We pulled weapons out of our Pacific allies to go waste them in the desert.

There is no cohesive strategy and China has been preparing for us to cut off their oil for over a decade now, and has made massive strides in the development of independent energy like Solar to protect them.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#84

Post by mlmonkey »

ErneX wrote: post #74
mlmonkey wrote: post #65

Such a shame that a country with the world's largest proven oil reserves is so much in debt and poverty. Lesson for the rest of the world is: you go against the USA, prepare to suffer. Of course, s/USA/China/ or s/USA/Russia/ above in a few years time.

We are not in the shithole we are because “we went against the USA”. The US was our biggest business partner. Our problem was we elected a coupster moron that destroyed our economy. It was our own doing.

You skipped the part where the "coupster moron" and his buddies pissed the US off by nationalizing oil industry and kicking the American companies out. That's what I am referring to.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#85

Post by tharmas »

marcosdumay wrote: post #63
plorg wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes the point of invading Cuba is to do liberal market reforms. If the goal is either to expropriate resources or just throw chum to the Florida voters in an election year then it's still on the table.

Does the current US government have goals? Or rather, any goal that is not media and PR management?

In the case of Cuba I imagine it's simply just political control, vassalage, control of the hemisphere. In the case of Venezuela it is Energy Dominance. The USA wants to control Global Energy supplies: oil and [natural] gas. It's all about China. By controlling the world's energy supplies the USA hopes to curtail the rise of China as a peer competitor and prevent other nations from achieving that status as well. Oil is price in $US. Iran was selling their oil in Yuan. That's a big no no from the point of view of maintaining US Hegemony.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#86

Post by ErneX »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #81
ErneX wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not in the shithole we are because “we went against the USA”. The US was our biggest business partner. Our problem was we elected a coupster moron that destroyed our economy. It was our own doing.

Sounds like we were maybe made for each other (alas alas alas).

We are geographically close and we always had good relations that were beneficial for both before these thugs came to power. The so called revolution just ruined Venezuela and caused the biggest exodus in the hemisphere. Maduro being captured and jailed was a blessing and something we’ve been hoping to happen for many years.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#87

Post by seanhunter »

legitster wrote: post #43
refulgentis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they doing any normalization? I've fallen behind and assumed it just became dictator apparatus protection as long as there was flattery, i.e. tell us we're in charge and we'll let you ship oil wherever.

Kinda, if you're the oil industry you are allowed to invest in Venezuela. But in a deep irony it seems like the oil industry is mostly uninterested. I kinda wonder if the White House has just forgotten about Venezuela - there's not any clear reason they are still under general sanctions.

The reason for the reticence by the oil industry may well relate to the nature of the deposits. Although Venezuela has huge reserves they are tar sands[1] which are extremely expensive, industrially intensive and environmentally destructive to extract. Most oil companies don't have that much experience in extracting tar sands also. And that's not to mention the optics and political backdrop. Oil companies are used to having their pipelines and equipment sabotaged (eg in Nigeria oil theft from pipelines is endemic) and having to fluff up despots etc to get access to natural resourses but I could see why they might be much more keen on working on projects in conventional oil fields that are more in their wheelhouse, are easier and have better marginal returns.

[1] as I understand it, tar sands are literally what they sound like - the oil has seeped up to the surface, which is essentially a sandy, oily quagmire. https://www.alamy.com/a-hand-full-of-tar-sand-the-tar-sands-...

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#88

Post by ErneX »

mlmonkey wrote: post #84
ErneX wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not in the shithole we are because “we went against the USA”. The US was our biggest business partner. Our problem was we elected a coupster moron that destroyed our economy. It was our own doing.

You skipped the part where the "coupster moron" and his buddies pissed the US off by nationalizing oil industry and kicking the American companies out. That's what I am referring to.

We already nationalised the oil industry in 1976. You must be referring to something else.

And who do you think was extracting oil these years there? Chevron is one of them.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#89

Post by lern_too_spel »

breppp wrote: post #76
watwut wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but did you considered that democracy was never a goal? Republican party is in full swing to destroy American democracy, why would they seek to create one in Venezuela? Bribes and oil were the goal. Consolidation of allied dictator was goal. That worked.

That's not a bad policy, considering America's disastrous history of spreading democracy and then finding out those voters want different shades of fascism

America has a disastrous history of propping up dictators who are overthrown and replaced by governments who can then justify anti-Americanism as a populist political strategy.

Re: Venezuela reveals $240B in debt it cannot pay (~$100B more than expected)

#90

Post by ozgrakkurt »

tharmas wrote: post #85
marcosdumay wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the current US government have goals? Or rather, any goal that is not media and PR management?

In the case of Cuba I imagine it's simply just political control, vassalage, control of the hemisphere. In the case of Venezuela it is Energy Dominance. The USA wants to control Global Energy supplies: oil and [natural] gas. It's all about China. By controlling the world's energy supplies the USA hopes to curtail the rise of China as a peer competitor and prevent other nations from achieving that status as well. Oil…

This indicates US already lost and is being a crybaby trying to maintain the current situation.

It will never work to be a bully without actually producing value long term.

Largest advancements I can see in US lately are LLMs and legalized gambling. They are also defunding science. AND they are making immigration harder which basically seals the deal since they are not capable of producing enough educated people to keep doing what they were doing before.

Also OFC Donald Trump who is a ignorant businessman that specializes in a mafioso industry and is a reality tv personality, is elected president twice.

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