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Japanese symbols that speak without words

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Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#81

Post by simonask »

hunter2_ wrote: post #34
freetime2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. On a related theme - I have found when driving in the North Eastern US, when people put on their turn signal, other drivers will often speed up and close the gap rather than giving them space to merge.

As a northeasterner, I can explain: In some other places, a turn signal before a lane change is an ask, to which others respond by creating more of a gap than there originally was. Here, it's not an ask but a statement that you've got enough of a gap already so you're going for it. As such, others don't find a need to react at all, which could mean the gap continues shrinking if it was already shrinking prior. The si…

Where I am, I was taught that activating the turn signals means "I have made a decision to change lanes", so the appropriate reaction from surrounding traffic is to either safely accommodate that choice, or indicate using the horn and/or lights that the decision is unsafe and must be cancelled.

I'm in Scandinavia, and it feels like surrounding regions have similar conventions.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#82

Post by simonask »

Symbiote wrote: post #66
xp84 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it's odd to imply people must be stupid because they're expected to read a few simple words such as "Left lane must turn left" rather than to memorize a bunch of symbols. American signs very frequently combine both styles - for instance, you see the above words next to a sign with arrows for whatever lanes, wordlessly illustrating the turn types permitted. If someone is a new driver, who hasn't seen the symboli…

People have seen the symbols since childhood, and as far as I know in every European country it's necessary to pass the exam on knowing what they mean before starting practical driving lessons.

Driving in Europe would be completely impossible without them. I have no idea what the Greek word for "no parking or stopping between 09 and 15" is, or the Croatian word for "left".

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#83

Post by pegasus »

Symbiote wrote: post #68
wetwater wrote: post #53

This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.

Yeah, these are not good symbols, except the help mark. None of them have any meaning, they must simply be learned. I recognize some of them, from seeing them in Japan, but I thought they meant some kind of taxi. A symbolic ear would be better to designate deafness, a walking stick age.

> these are not good symbols. None of them have any meaning, they must simply be learned.

They are excellent symbols – for the society they arose in, which was at the other extreme end to the fragmentation, atomization, and attention span erosion we are experiencing today. In their case, choosing esthetics over learning curve totally made sense, because the learning curve was not a concern for them. Our society OTOH cannot afford such niceties.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#84

Post by mendigou »

hunter2_ wrote: post #34
freetime2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. On a related theme - I have found when driving in the North Eastern US, when people put on their turn signal, other drivers will often speed up and close the gap rather than giving them space to merge.

As a northeasterner, I can explain: In some other places, a turn signal before a lane change is an ask, to which others respond by creating more of a gap than there originally was. Here, it's not an ask but a statement that you've got enough of a gap already so you're going for it. As such, others don't find a need to react at all, which could mean the gap continues shrinking if it was already shrinking prior. The si…

I’m sorry but that is an insane interpretation of turn signals. If you only turn them on once you’re about to execute the maneuver, they’re useless. The whole point of them is to warn other drivers you intend to do something so they can anticipate your movement and allow you to do it safely.

How are turn signals explained in the driver handbook (or equivalent rulebook) in northeastern US? As far as I know they clearly state that turn signals are about intent, so they should be turned on the moment you decide you need to turn or switch lanes.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#85

Post by mendigou »

freetime2 wrote: post #62
hunter2_ wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you handle an upcoming left turn (assuming right hand driving) during heavy traffic? If I am in the middle lane (lane 2), and I realize I need to get into the leftmost lane (lane 1) to make a turn, but lane 1 is too full for me to simply move into it without affecting others, then I would have no choice but to cut someone off. I would minimize the effect in two ways: by trying to cut off whoever has left the…

> Suppose the car in lane 1 is going slower because they just merged from a left-side entrance ramp. Just to clarify, my original post was more about merging from a faster lane of travel into a slower lane, or where both lanes are traveling at about the same speed. When merging into a faster lane I agree the slower moving car should wait for a suitable opening before signaling and merging. And there are cases where i…

The slower car should signal the moment they decide they need to merge into the lane, then wait for an appropriate gap.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#86

Post by zdc1 »

1-6 wrote: post #19

I don't see anything particularly special about these symbols. Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?

Yeah. The symbols "speak without words", but no one hears their meaning without learning it in advance. They're pretty and foreign, but not particularly communicative.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#87

Post by Towaway69 »

wetwater wrote: post #53

This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.

But is ‘Learner’ the japanese word for beginner? English speakers might well have an association with ‘L’, Learner and a car but other language groups might not.

Interesting to read such a colonial comment in 2026 - the British Empire is long gone.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#88

Post by pegasus »

wetwater wrote: post #53

This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.

If all you see there is something "cool", you're missing the more rewarding depths. These symbols speak of a society which was at the other extreme end to the fragmentation, atomization, and attention span erosion we are experiencing today. This allowed them to elevate esthetics to a point we couldn't afford to today. I'm thinking here mainly of those ancient Mon[1] symbols – though something of their spirit lives on in the modern symbols also discussed in the article. Contemplating these evocative designs can help us build a bridge to a societal context that's otherwise almost incomprehensible to us.

Another thing I found fascinating: the way the symbol that marks a fire truck doesn't employ the red color we would expect in the West, and is instead based on the shape of an ice crystal. A bit like an amulet to ward evil away, there's some kind of atavistic magical function still afoot there.

[1] the wikipedia page linked from the article is worth a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mon_(emblem)

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#89

Post by Tor3 »

dd-sharma wrote: post #43

Several years back I lived in Tokyo for a couple of years. I like learning the local language. I could mostly get by with the spoken Japanese (Nihongo). Tried to learn the script but failed miserably. It's a combination of Hirgana alphabets, Katakana alphabets and to top it all 10s of thousands of Chinese Kanji. Loved my stay, very polite people. I think their vocabulary doesn't have the word impolite (polite and les…

The article is not about the Japanese language, and it's not about writing systems, Kanji or otherwise.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#90

Post by Tor3 »

Towaway69 wrote: post #87
wetwater wrote: post #53

This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.

But is ‘Learner’ the japanese word for beginner? English speakers might well have an association with ‘L’, Learner and a car but other language groups might not. Interesting to read such a colonial comment in 2026 - the British Empire is long gone.

That "L" wasn't used in my European country until recently, and when I saw it the first time I didn't really get what it was supposed to mean. I was guessing that it could be something indicating that the driver didn't have a license and was practicing with someone (something which you can do legally, if the other person is above 25 and has had a license for multiple years, and in areas which are not trafically complicated). But I was thinking it could also mean that the driver had just got the license, but that sounded strange to me as well.. having never heard about any license divisive system being introduced.

I realize I in fact still do not know what the "L" is supposed to mean, in my country.

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