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Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

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Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#81

Post by dredmorbius »

post-it wrote: post #57
econ wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Create a government from scratch. Version control the laws. Compare the laws with all other countries. Hoard data. Write code to replace government employees and to make laws easy to implement. (If done well consider selling a product or service) Make everything modular so that the establishment can steal it. Get people involved. Doesn't matter if you need to write a sim and convince them it is a game. Pretend the wh…

I'm not sure you can code your way into having a monopoly on violence.

NB: Weber's definition of government (which your quote misstates, so to speak, as is often the case), is that the state is that entity which has the monopoly on the legitimate claim to violence. It's legitimacy, not violence, which is key.

For the longer explanation, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37366751>.

That said, legitimacy is a political property, and one which cannot be attained through purely technical means. To that extent I agree with your critique.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#82

Post by firecall »

singingtoday wrote: post #72
nodrog3000 wrote: post #32

Simple solution, Use your router to block whatever you need to, control your kids devices, the internet stays free and open. What are we talking about? There are no laws that will turn out well.

The entire point is to gain control over internet traffic. Your suggestion doesn't work because it requires people to implement it themselves and since you can't control all people, you can't control how they're going to implement it. The title "for the children" is tongue-in-cheek. It's not serious.

> The entire point is to gain control over internet traffic.

I see many arguments claiming it's about mass surveillance and an invasion of privacy and so on.

We already have mass surveillance, so I don't really buy into those arguments.

I think it's worth considering that it is actually about control. Or more precisely, that it's about dissuading citizens from using social media in the first place.

The damage done to our western democracies from misinformation spread via social media has not gone unnoticed...

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#83

Post by lobf »

Bender wrote: post #18
lobf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but like, if your child touches the screen in your car have you committed a crime? Using a smart fridge is verboten- speaking to the house's Alexa? Straight to jail.

If a web client (fridge, infotainment system, alexa, etc...) can access the internet then it must be updated to look for RTA/adult headers and prompt for an admin password for parental controls to approve access to the site.

The internet is more than the www

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#84

Post by doctorpangloss »

big85 wrote: post #46
edoceo wrote: post #24

There has got to be a way to assert that a user is human, and over some age, without having to identify which specific human that is.

I suspect something like this is on the way, in the long term. Every site has some Cloudflare captcha or the like to guard against the AI scraper bots. Eventually, we may need some kind of token which is only issued to real humans.

that's what Apple gives behind the scenes to Cloudflare, and people learn about it from Hacker News for the first time over and over again.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#85

Post by 0x00C0FFEE »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #61
post-it wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you're fine with disenfranchising voters. In which case, securing elections is the easiest thing in the world: I vote and nobody else does. It's securing elections while not disenfranchising voters that's the hard part.

> Only if you're fine with disenfranchising voters I don't love disenfranchising voters but I think it's probably better than allowing elections to be vulnerable to foreign tampering, don't you think?

That’s a false dichotomy. Better practices for election security can be implemented without disenfranchising voters.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#86

Post by Bender »

lobf wrote: post #83
Bender wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a web client (fridge, infotainment system, alexa, etc...) can access the internet then it must be updated to look for RTA/adult headers and prompt for an admin password for parental controls to approve access to the site.

The internet is more than the www

Indeed. My focus is on protecting families, small children and small children are primarily using tablets and phones. It's not perfect but it is a valid starting point. Grabbing everyone's PII and leaking it is a non starter. We can knock down the other goal posts once we fix this piece.

Another option of course is to force all these companies and their age/ID vendors to be under something much stricter than PCI DSS and Fedramp for their entire data-centers as a starting point if we must allow storing PII data of children and their parents.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#87

Post by econ »

post-it wrote: post #57
econ wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Create a government from scratch. Version control the laws. Compare the laws with all other countries. Hoard data. Write code to replace government employees and to make laws easy to implement. (If done well consider selling a product or service) Make everything modular so that the establishment can steal it. Get people involved. Doesn't matter if you need to write a sim and convince them it is a game. Pretend the wh…

I'm not sure you can code your way into having a monopoly on violence.

To state the obvious: If anyone can code his way out of something it is someone who codes.

If enough people want something badly enough, when existing governing structures will bow is a question of how many people.

You should pretend your code isn't good enough. That way you can own the problem. You will get plenty of help from those making things worse. Empires crumble eventually.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#88

Post by Bender »

AngryData wrote: post #76
Bender wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an interesting way this is a good example. It is indeed up to parents on a ranch to decide when their children are ready to see animals mate. It's another matter all together to decide when the small children or teens are ready to see humans mate. Either way that needs to be up to the parent or legal guardian. That is already their job.

You think ranch owners are hiding their farm practices from their children? Nah I don't believe that for one second. Ive watched 10 year olds of the most prudish family I ever known holding piglets so their dad can castrate them. Hell 20 year old Amish people can't even hold hands but will have kids help artificially inseminate cows.

Most small children on ranches have seen everything that can happen with animals including but not limited to mating, shooting coyotes, death from diseases. And yeah it's up to the parents when the kids see and do these things. Three year olds have a hard time with a lever action 45-70. There is a time when it makes sense and it's up to the parents when the kids are ready to understand and correctly follow instructions and are mature enough.

This thread is about stopping the insanity of uploading and ultimately leaking PII of families before the kids can even consent to it. Kids will despise their parents if they could have stopped this and did not. They will absolutely appreciate their parents for protecting them from predatory companies.

If we must pursue these predatory practices of colluding companies and governments then both of them need to be under stricter technical and audit requirements than PCI DSS and Fedramp.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#89

Post by emodendroket »

asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

I don't think there's some magical technical trick that lets you do an end run around politics.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#90

Post by ibarrajo »

asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

You can already do this, it’s called reticulum.

Essentially it’s encrypted internet/networking over any type of network including LoRa.

Issue is the size of the community and linking up to actually serve internet or surface public services there.

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