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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#81

Post by nottorp »

flowerbreeze wrote: post #57
comboy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made Qwen respond it was made by Google with a simple Chinese greeting. But also, I made Sonnet introduce itself as made by OpenAI.. Prompt: 你好！用一句话介绍你自己。 Sonnet in around 5% of resplies: 你好！我是 **ChatGPT**，一个由 OpenAI 开发的 AI 助手，致力于回答问题、提供信息和帮助解决各种问题。有什么我可以帮你的吗？ Found it like a month ago and it kept working, I wonder if it will stop after this comment.

Opus said to me once without any poking at it something like, "Help Grok understand it better". Makes me wonder if they are all cross-pollinated to an extent.

Any LLM is probably trained on anything available online, including transcripts of conversations with their competition LLMs.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#82

Post by CPLX »

ceejayoz wrote: post #78
CPLX wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think people laughing is an important metric versus having an integrated industrial facility capable of producing vehicles in large quantities? Maybe start at the beginning. Where do you think power comes from in the world? I'll give you a hint. It's not the ability to construct narratives.

> You think people laughing is an important metric… I think if you're gonna argue "preserving the auto industry is a national security issue" you have to address the fact that an auto industry that relies on protectionism to avoid being competitive with the rest of the world will probably not be very effective at national security . Otherwise, you wind up like Russia in Ukraine - people laugh at your failed efforts.…

If you don't think industrial capacity is relevant to geopolitical power then I don't think we're really having a serious conversation here.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#83

Post by CPLX »

theevilsharpie wrote: post #77
CPLX wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the chief advantage, insofar as there is a difference between China, India, and Indonesia, which there is. Their chief advantage has been a coherent, long-running national industrial policy and trade policy that encourages industry while keeping the financial sector from taking over the economy and ripping everybody off. We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were t…

> We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were the dominant industrial power in the world at that time as well. I think there's another world event that happened in that time span that might better explain America's world-wide industrial dominance.

You're confusing cause and effect.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#84

Post by rapind »

epolanski wrote: post #32
jmyeet wrote: post #12

The US government exists to defend capital interests. It's why we can't buy BYD cars. It's why we can't import any cars unless they're 25 years old. It's why a Tiktok sale was forced. It's why the US is seeking to block states from banning prediction markets. It's why the federal government is seeking to block states from blocking data center projects. As soon as DeepSeek came out I realized what was going on: China…

Chinese have a wider outlook on it. Politically they believe AI belongs to humanity, which is why they are basically the only ones left publishing research in the open. That's probably part of their socialist nature. But also a financial one. They believe that models are commodities, that you can swap one for the other and that the only thing that matters are the applications built upon them. So they want to make sur…

> It's quite impressive how the latest years I have found more and more to empathize with China than many of the western counterparts.

I'm not sure that this is because China is suddenly a great place or political system so much as a reflection of many western nations speed running to autocracy in the name of manliness.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#86

Post by ceejayoz »

CPLX wrote: post #82
ceejayoz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You think people laughing is an important metric… I think if you're gonna argue "preserving the auto industry is a national security issue" you have to address the fact that an auto industry that relies on protectionism to avoid being competitive with the rest of the world will probably not be very effective at national security . Otherwise, you wind up like Russia in Ukraine - people laugh at your failed efforts.…

If you don't think industrial capacity is relevant to geopolitical power then I don't think we're really having a serious conversation here.

> If you don't think industrial capacity is relevant to geopolitical power…

Of course it is!

But so does the quality of what that capacity puts out.

Again, the Russians found that out in Ukraine.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#87

Post by looksjjhg »

jtbayly wrote: post #79
MaxPock wrote: post #73

Becoming such a sore loser. Historians will probably look this as the most shameful period of the American empire.

Because they have held off on adding these companies to the list in order to avoid increasing tensions with China? ETA from the first paragraph of the article: "The U.S. has held off... to avoid escalating tensions with Beijing."

did you just came out of under a rock? lol

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#88

Post by teravor »

jmyeet wrote: post #12

The US government exists to defend capital interests. It's why we can't buy BYD cars. It's why we can't import any cars unless they're 25 years old. It's why a Tiktok sale was forced. It's why the US is seeking to block states from banning prediction markets. It's why the federal government is seeking to block states from blocking data center projects. As soon as DeepSeek came out I realized what was going on: China…

    > It's why we can't buy BYD cars
are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact that those cars are very heavy, potentially fire-making (battery firmware) computers on wheels that can be rooted (or are already) at any time by their manufacturers in China?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#89

Post by antonvs »

MaxPock wrote: post #73

Becoming such a sore loser. Historians will probably look this as the most shameful period of the American empire.

In the 1990s, web browser SSL encryption was export restricted, classified as a munition because it involved cryptography. That was under Clinton.

For all the current admin's insane, ridiculous, corrupt, and criminal flaws, it's not clear to me how much of this particular issue is just the US government doing what it's always done, knee-jerk react to tech it doesn't understand by passing stupid laws.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#90

Post by heyheyhouhou »

woadwarrior01 wrote: post #50
mystraline wrote: post #8

Hmm, my VPN provider explicitly has Chinese exit points. And whats funny is I can load AliPay from any CVS. (Like, seriously) You can try to pry Qwen and Deepseek from my Graphene/Linux hands.

What VPN provider is this? I could use it because Chinese users of my apps often complain about not being able to download things from my western hosted servers.

Just an anecdote,

I lived in China for a bit years ago and one the biggest issues accessing western websites weren't restrictions against the site. Most of the times the culprit was using CDNs or services from Google or Cloudflare which were restricted totally or partially.

I was working on a site around that time, learned about that fixed it for the chinese user base, after that users from china went up considerably.

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