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European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

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Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#81

Post by culi »

OptionOfT wrote: post #79
stymaar wrote: post #47

I've no opinion whatsoever on the topic, but why can't economists refrain from writing opinion pieces in newspaper about topics they have no qualification on? I'm sure there's enough dermatologists and pharmaceutical engineers to give their informed opinion on such a topic, instead of having economists speaking as everythingologists on every damn subject… (I know why they do that, the author is merely a polical activ…

Sidenote: this phenomenon is known as the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect.

Maybe more relevant is "Engineer syndrome" — the tendency of technically minded individuals to assume that their expertise in one area makes them an authority on everything

See also Nobel Disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease

I think the problem overall is just that we live in a society that conditions us to get validation from the size of our paychecks. Software engineers get a fat paycheck and think "well I must be really smart. Why else would society compensate me like this?". I'm sure it's a problem in all sorts of highly-paid fields. I'm always shocked by how many physicians I see write massively ambitious, terribly researched generalizations (see Jared Diamond and the experts in relevant fields that will spend the rest of their lives dispelling myths he spread)

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#82

Post by culi »

Semaphor wrote: post #40
dynm wrote: post #35

The FDA did (3 days ago!) finally approve a new ingredient: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-expa... My personal hot take is that we should all be using zinc (or titanium) oxide sunscreen which AFAICT maxes out both effectiveness and chemical safety. (And is the best for the fish?) Interestingly, these are the only ingredients that the FDA currently deems both safe and effective.

My wife is black and has sensitive skin. She once tried zinc oxide sunscreen. If one wants to be protected from the sun while cosplaying as purple monster, it's a great choice.

This truly is the biggest drawbacks. It's almost impossible to make zinc sunscreen see-through. One technique is to micronize the zinc but this comes with its own set of risks including skin penetration and environmental risks that micronized zinc can pose to aquatic life.

I think the only solution is to embrace it. There isn't really a 100% safe sunscreen that is also invisible

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#83

Post by culi »

jerlam wrote: post #42
dynm wrote: post #35

The FDA did (3 days ago!) finally approve a new ingredient: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-expa... My personal hot take is that we should all be using zinc (or titanium) oxide sunscreen which AFAICT maxes out both effectiveness and chemical safety. (And is the best for the fish?) Interestingly, these are the only ingredients that the FDA currently deems both safe and effective.

Sunscreens that use zinc/titanium dioxide as active ingredients are often so unpleasant to use that people don't apply enough of them or refuse to use them. The "nicer" sunscreens that use these ingredients often sneak in SPF boosters which are actually derivatives of other chemical sunscreens but are treated differently on the ingredients label, pretty much cheating the system. SPF boosters: https://labmuffin.com/10…

the EWG's sunscreen reviews are quite in depth fwiw. They even assess the "data availability" of each ingredient

https://www.ewg.org/sunscreen/best-sunscreens/best-beach-spo...

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#84

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

horizion2025 wrote: post #65
dynm wrote: post #35

The FDA did (3 days ago!) finally approve a new ingredient: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-expa... My personal hot take is that we should all be using zinc (or titanium) oxide sunscreen which AFAICT maxes out both effectiveness and chemical safety. (And is the best for the fish?) Interestingly, these are the only ingredients that the FDA currently deems both safe and effective.

Titanium dioxide is now an IARC 2B suspected carcinogen.

IARC is not a regulatory body, and its categories do not address disease risk.

Maybe FDA got this right. I bet you dollars to donuts that putting TiO2 on your skin reduces the risk of cancer.

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#85

Post by mike_hock »

European sunscreens are less regulated than American sunscreens and are thus safer because they can draw from a wider array of ingredients.

American food is less regulated than European food and is thus less safe because it can draw from a wider array of ingredients.

Wait.

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#86

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mike_hock wrote: post #85

European sunscreens are less regulated than American sunscreens and are thus safer because they can draw from a wider array of ingredients. American food is less regulated than European food and is thus less safe because it can draw from a wider array of ingredients. Wait.

Sunscreen can be unsafe in that the ingredients poison you. Or it can be unsafe in that it fails to screen the sun's harmful UV. More ingredients to choose from means that it can be safer at screening UV. But...

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#87

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

horizion2025 wrote: post #64
tristor wrote: post #62

This article never actually says which chemicals are being used in these sunscreens that are supposedly better/safer, but basically there are only two groups of effective active ingredients for sunscreen: zinc or titanium oxide (minerals) or benzene/petroleum derivatives. The problem with the latter is they absorb through the skin and are carcinogenic, although the research shows they're better than mineral-based sun…

Btw titanium dioxide is now a suspected carcinogenic. It is illegal in food in the EU now.

I hope you didn't type that comment using a cell phone, because IARC also suspects that to be carcinogenic.

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#88

Post by ericmay »

DangitBobby wrote: post #77
ericmay wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation has not always resulted in better health outcomes than if the product had otherwise been regulated either. We don't need to set up this false dichotomy between markets and regulation and then bash markets over the head with the negatives aspects while ignoring negatives outcomes as a result of government action which you seem to be insinuating. So to remain unconvinced doesn't make sense here. Though I gue…

Sounds like we just agree then. Regulations are necessary and should be tuned, and the Free Market can operate within those regulations, the best of all worlds is where these things work together.

Sure but then I'm not sure why you disagreed with the OP? I don't think they said anything different than what I've written.

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#89

Post by DangitBobby »

ericmay wrote: post #88
DangitBobby wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like we just agree then. Regulations are necessary and should be tuned, and the Free Market can operate within those regulations, the best of all worlds is where these things work together.

Sure but then I'm not sure why you disagreed with the OP? I don't think they said anything different than what I've written.

> If the negative effect is this obvious in sunscreen, just imagine how much more impactful removing regulation on cancer drugs would be.

Note that I'm not even explicitly disagreeing with OP, you interpreted my "flipside" as a disagreement. It's undeniable that removing regulations in cancer treatments will be "impactful". Possibly even it will have positive impact. But I am unconvinced that this would be a wise pattern to adopt more broadly.

The original does not read to me as a call for tweaking regulations, it reads like an anti-regulation Boogeyman post. Forgive me for possibly over indexing on patterns I've observed from HNers making this type of comment.

They are of course free at any time to come in and declare that my characterization is unfair, at which my point about the flipside is still completely valid.

Re: European sunscreens are safer than American (2024)

#90

Post by ericmay »

DangitBobby wrote: post #89
ericmay wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but then I'm not sure why you disagreed with the OP? I don't think they said anything different than what I've written.

> If the negative effect is this obvious in sunscreen, just imagine how much more impactful removing regulation on cancer drugs would be. Note that I'm not even explicitly disagreeing with OP, you interpreted my "flipside" as a disagreement. It's undeniable that removing regulations in cancer treatments will be "impactful". Possibly even it will have positive impact. But I am unconvinced that this would be a wise pat…

Oh, I didn't read it that way at all which is why I interpreted your flip side comment as I did. You seemed to be defending regulation for no good reason in that context where the OP was pointing out how regulation seemed to (and I have done no research on this so I don't know) be holding the United States back, and then pointed out areas where we also have in their opinion regulations that are too strict.
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