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Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

theguardian.com

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Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#81

Post by quantified »

mrtesthah wrote: post #60
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's your last point that's actually the strongest. There's always gaps between theoretical and practical, but to see China investing so hard in the future while the US digs in it's heels is infuriating.

> ...while the US digs in it's heels is infuriating. And we shouldn't imply that this policy represents any sort of national consensus -- it's pure corruption plain and simple.

Corruption that concentrates on one party whether that party is in or out of power, too.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#82

Post by [deleted] »

pstuart wrote: post #62
jillesvangurp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point about modern gas/coal plants is that it's relatively cheap to shut them down and start them up again. They are backup power, not for providing inflexible base load. Batteries + renewables are taking a lot of market share and flexible backup power is much more important than baseload (inflexible power like nuclear)

Gas is faster to respond, coal, not so much. From the Goog: Starting up a coal-fired power station depends heavily on the plant's current temperature, taking anywhere from 2 to 48 hours to reach full operational capacity. Because of massive metal boilers and turbines, the heating process must be slow to prevent severe thermal fatigue and equipment damage. [1, 2] The startup time is broken down by the plant's previous…

[deleted]

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#83

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

horsawlarway wrote: post #20
SoftTalker wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Storage is the issue. You still need to supply base load (well, all load) at night.

LFPs are cheap and safe, with very good cycle counts. Sodium seems to be actually hitting real commercial production volumes (ex - GM just announced a sodium ramp up days ago, CATL has been producing them for a while). I expect we'll see sodium mature a good bit over the next decade (right now - it's just not quite as good as LFP, but it has a lot of promise in temperature extremes and cheap input materials) So sure…

I suspect sodium is better than lithium today. The win is that sodium is much more forgiving of high temperatures so they can be run without cooling fans/pumps. Lithium battery installations are actually loud owing to all of their cooling infrastructure.

No cooling means the sodium batteries are easier/cheaper to maintain (no mechanical failures). Maybe not as energy dense, but you could still come out ahead long term when accounting for Capex+Opex.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#84

Post by fragmede »

flumes_whims_ wrote: post #49
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to popular belief, solar panels don't generate zero power on cloudy days. They typically generate 10-25% of their maximum output on the cloudiest of days. Most cloudy days are not maximally cloudy. We don't need solar panels everywhere to get even close to ~100% renewables (with nuclear, wind, new geothermal, and hydro). The areas where you put them are distributed enough that it would be exceptionally rare…

But they do generate zero power at night.

Solution? Send large mirrors into space so it never stops shining.

https://www.reflectorbital.com/

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#85

Post by dnautics »

thelastgallon wrote: post #38
dnautics wrote: post #26

The US currently is at per capita GHG emissions approximately at the the same level as it was in 1910. https://ourworldindata.org/profile/co2/united-states Despite not being in the paris treaty, the us needs only a 10-12% reduction to meet the paris accord requirements on schedule (43% decrease by 2030).

US consumers and businesses buy almost all their stuff from China. China's massive footprint of Coal should be added to US emissions.

> US consumers and businesses buy almost all their stuff from China

This is not really the case, China is the US' #3 trading partner, and trade-corrected GHGs are also down (see the graph further down the page), actually by an slightly better percentage off-peak.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#86

Post by cman1444 »

oblio wrote: post #71
thewhitetulip wrote: post #39

There was an article recently about how the West Asia war is quickly decarbonising South Asia. Lot of solar and wind projects in the pipeline for SA countries. Especially because now renewables are a national security issue

> West Asia war Oh, snap, did Turkey attack Cyprus again? :-p What West Asian war? Isn't Iran firmly in the Middle East by any reasonable definition?

The middle east is in Asia, no?

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#87

Post by mullingitover »

mrtesthah wrote: post #60
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's your last point that's actually the strongest. There's always gaps between theoretical and practical, but to see China investing so hard in the future while the US digs in it's heels is infuriating.

> ...while the US digs in it's heels is infuriating. And we shouldn't imply that this policy represents any sort of national consensus -- it's pure corruption plain and simple.

It's also sabotage of all domestic manufacturing.

The price of energy sets a floor on the price of all manufactured goods. By kneecapping the cheapest sources of energy, the regime kneecaps all domestic manufacturers.

China's aggressive buildout of cost effective energy production isn't because they're 'woke,' it's because it makes them more competitive. Every product they export at low prices is in part due to the their extremely cheap energy.

It's like the regime looked at the UK's collapsing manufacturing industry due to their high energy costs and said "I want that for us!"

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#88

Post by dnautics »

mbgerring wrote: post #56
thelastgallon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US consumers and businesses buy almost all their stuff from China. China's massive footprint of Coal should be added to US emissions.

China’s massive coal footprint is shrinking due to successful, intentional effort under the most recent five year plan, and coal’s presence in China’s power mix will likely continue to shrink, while China ramps up exports of clean energy technology to the rest of the world.

In absolute terms, china's coal footprint is increasing, and will continue to increase in the short term, as of early 2026, they were still opening new coal plants.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#89

Post by ToucanLoucan »

mbgerring wrote: post #50
SoftTalker wrote: post #4

This is more from a lot of coal power plants being converted to gas over the past 20 years than solar overtaking the outputs of those power plants. Coal output shrinking, solar output rising, the lines have crossed. Coal is unpopular in all but a few areas where coal mining is still a part of the local econonmy. I used to work near a coal plant and every day I'd go out to my car and it would have little black particl…

It’s also from focused efforts to close coal plants, and rapid, massive deployment of solar in the last 20 years, and new technology emerging (better batteries and dispatch technologies) to make solar into a 24/7 resource. For whatever reason, there’s a strong motivation for people to dismiss the gigantic global effort to transition the energy system away from fossil fuels, and claim that all that effort isn’t really…

> For whatever reason, there’s a strong motivation for people to dismiss the gigantic global effort to transition the energy system away from fossil fuels, and claim that all that effort isn’t really doing anything.

Because renewable energy is Communism, or something.

But seriously: $$$$. The Fossil Fuel industry, before it finally dies, will make big Tobacco look downright merciful. The owners of these companies and their media co-conspirators should be tried in the Hague for what they have done to our planet just to keep making fucking money.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#90

Post by dnautics »

jltsiren wrote: post #34
dnautics wrote: post #26

The US currently is at per capita GHG emissions approximately at the the same level as it was in 1910. https://ourworldindata.org/profile/co2/united-states Despite not being in the paris treaty, the us needs only a 10-12% reduction to meet the paris accord requirements on schedule (43% decrease by 2030).

The Paris Agreement deals with total emissions. Unlike previous climate treaties, it doesn't specify a baseline year. If you use 2005, as the US was supposed to use, the 2030 target is ~3.5 billion tonnes. 2024 emissions were ~4.9 billion tonnes. If you use a 1990 baseline, as in earlier treaties, the US target becomes ~2.9 billion tonnes.

US population has been basically stable (+10% over the past 10 years), so per capita (in terms of the paris agreement timeframe) is a reasonable proxy.
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