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Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

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Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#81
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US had net negative migration in 2025 for the first time in decades: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2026/01/14/immigra...

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More people creates more economic activity and higher productivity, which is deflationary. Fewer people lowers productivity and depresses economic activity, causing inflation. You have it backwards - the real economy is not a closed system with fixed amounts of positions and finite money needing zero sum thinking.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#82

Fascinating to see that MENA is a net positive on migration. There's often a lot of rhetoric around MENA migration to Europe and North America, but you hear much less about migration to MENA countries.

I think people underestimate how many people move back to their home country once they have a better chance (through e.g. education or money) and / or when the situation there improves (e.g. stability). It's why I don't understand why the anti-immigration parties don't do more internationally to help other countries.

This was a primary goal (if not states) of USAID and related programs. Stem the causes of immigration, support stability, and create goodwill for the donor country.

Still imperialistic and self serving in many ways, but it worked.

On the other hand, I've recently talked with a Polish to US immigrant who was moving back to Poland this summer as jobs and more had improved. They were competitive (in his mind) with the lack of opportunity and anti immigrant thinking across the US today.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#83
post #81
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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More people creates more economic activity and higher productivity, which is deflationary. Fewer people lowers productivity and depresses economic activity, causing inflation. You have it backwards - the real economy is not a closed system with fixed amounts of positions and finite money needing zero sum thinking.

And it’s a good thing all that wealth is evenly distributed and not hoarded nearly exclusively by a small class of families.

I can assure you mass immigration is not good for the working class families of this country despite what an economist might say in aggregate. The reality is more people drives up the costs of food, shelter, medicine, and other resources that are not very elastic.

Don’t overthink it.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to pay taxes nor social security for 20+ years in order to become a citizen in very many countries. You can live on benefits before becoming a citizen and after becoming a citizen. Usually the requirement is that you are a resident for a set number of years in order to become a citizen.

> You can live on benefits before becoming a citizen and after becoming a citizen What benefits? I don't know every country in the world, in Germany unless you count retirement as a benefit (which is something you pay for and have to reach a certain age that is ever moving upwards) you don't get any assistance if you're not living in the country.

When was the last time you were called to personally appear and report to the German government, so that they could verify that you are in the country, and not somewhere else?

Benefits aren't collected in cash, they are sent to bank accounts. The beneficiary can be anywhere.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#85
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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You’re assuming everything else can’t grow to absorb the demand. In general it does - new housing, job creation, all of it. What you’re really seeing is when something - often policy - gets in the way and a place ends up underbuilt. It’s still a problem but it’s one with different solutions.

It can but it takes a very long time to bring food online. To develop real estate.

Especially when the real numbers of immigrants is much higher.

It takes time to train more doctors, to raise more cattle, and to build more homes. Way more than the rate of immigration over the last 30 years.

It makes rich families richer though. But it hasn’t been good for working people and the community culture the country once had.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#86
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or move back to your home country once you've gained a beneficial citizenship and can have foreign government benefits paid out every month while you don't even live in that country anymore.

What country pays out benefits to non-residents?

Any country that pays out benefits to bank accounts instead of cash-in-hand. When was the last time you as a citizen were summoned to appear in front of a government official so that they could verify that you are in the country.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "correctly"? Who says that a country or a group of humans or even an individual human is beyond saving?

> Who says that a country or a group of humans or even an individual human is beyond saving? The one doing the saving. Surely the one needing help should not be the to decide. They will always say “I’m worth saving”.

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Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. I think it's more about the passport ranking so one can travel and also the salary bump. But even if more of the other government services, try living in a country where if you get into a serious car accident you have to pay cash at the ER before they treat you. Scrambling to find multiple thousands of dollars in cash at 3am sometimes. (This happened to my friend in Kenya) Im not sure if I can blame people f…

I think a very low percentage of migrants do it so that they can get a better passport for traveling. Sure, there are people who do that also.

Fair point. I also think the same group you're talking about is probably not thinking about going back home with just government benefits to sustain them. They probably are more focused on working in countries with higher wages and building big homes back home. I think it tends to be more wage driven than government benefit driven, but I could be wrong.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. I think it's more about the passport ranking so one can travel and also the salary bump. But even if more of the other government services, try living in a country where if you get into a serious car accident you have to pay cash at the ER before they treat you. Scrambling to find multiple thousands of dollars in cash at 3am sometimes. (This happened to my friend in Kenya) Im not sure if I can blame people f…

Is it legal to let people suffer or even die at the ER on Kenya if they don’t happen to carry a few k$?

Fair point, just looked it up and it seems to be illegal to do that. But in my experience, many probably still do it, or people don't trust that hospitals will follow the law...it may be more of that latter part, not knowing whether they will or won't ask you for money, or whether they will or won't take your insurance. So I think that uncertainty can mean having to be prepared for it anyway.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you pay taxes and social security for 20+ years why wouldn’t you be entitled to it? Especially considering you wouldn’t be using expensive programs like Medicare.

You don't have to pay taxes nor social security for 20+ years in order to become a citizen in very many countries. You can live on benefits before becoming a citizen and after becoming a citizen. Usually the requirement is that you are a resident for a set number of years in order to become a citizen.

Most countries have contribution-tested benefits if not means-tested. You definitely can't fast-track citizenship and then start receiving benefits and fuck off.
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