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Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

normaltech.ai

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Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#81

We have been aggressively and enthusiastically automating away software engineering for the entire history of the computer industry. Every time we do so, we are able to build bigger, better things more quickly. When this happens, our work becomes more valuable and expectations rise to match. The world’s appetite for software has been insatiable so far. AI hasn’t replaced software engineers because every time we becom…

> we might finally become productive enough to exhaust the world’s appetite for software.

I think we are past this point personally. Lots of blasphemously useless crap being built.

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#82

We have been aggressively and enthusiastically automating away software engineering for the entire history of the computer industry. Every time we do so, we are able to build bigger, better things more quickly. When this happens, our work becomes more valuable and expectations rise to match. The world’s appetite for software has been insatiable so far. AI hasn’t replaced software engineers because every time we becom…

>Specifically, AI+human developer no longer outperforms AI alone. So far, all the available evidence seems to show AI as a force multiplier for developers and that for good results

Or humans are relegated to the co-processor role. The AI does 99% of the thinking and work and consults the human for the 1% it needs. Whether that extra contribution is essentially a random number generation, creativity / outside the box input, or esoteric problem solving remains to be seen.

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#83

It most certainly will replace software engineers. What's missing is, as the article suggests, the "Delivery" bit. But that's not the realm of software engineers, that's the realm of DevOps/SRE/Cloud engineers. I work as a cloud engineer and have been contacted by multiple non-engineering friends who have now been able to create their pet projects from scratch in different languages and have it running locally, as we…

For most apps, delivery has been some equivalent of “git push heroku main” and setting a DNS record for like 15 years. That’s especially true for most of the apps being vibe coded today.

The fact that “cloud engineer” is still a job suggests that the simple case is not the one driving employment. There are definitely more devops/sre/cloud engineer roles today than there were in 2009 (and I’d be willing to wager you if you included pre-devops sysadmins in that count, there’d still be more total roles today).

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#84
I sure belive that at the moment each big tech ai provider has it's black pr budget for propaganda, influcencing influencers, comments factories, FOMO spin doctors etc. In the meantime wise heads counted that unless they (AI providers) provide like couple times more of real profit it will all collapse, thus next level is IPOing to buy more time.

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#85

It most certainly will replace software engineers. What's missing is, as the article suggests, the "Delivery" bit. But that's not the realm of software engineers, that's the realm of DevOps/SRE/Cloud engineers. I work as a cloud engineer and have been contacted by multiple non-engineering friends who have now been able to create their pet projects from scratch in different languages and have it running locally, as we…

We have an instance where the non-tech team has started building tooling for themselves (because the technical team is overburdened with work).

Essentially a small application idea that interfaces with the larger system. It was POC built in 2-3 days, 3 or 4 commits.

Impressive - however the person that built it has now made 400 more commits over the last 3 months to this project as it has been modified, it’s essentially become his part / full time job to just build + maintain this new application.

They have become a software developer. An untrained one, one that doesn’t understand security or best practices. Maybe as Claude gets better the load will be lightened and it will not consume their day, but as it stands - at my company, all of these initial “vibe apps” are becoming maintenance for them, taking up more and more of their time. It’s obvious that they want MORE software, not less. So traditional software engineering is probably gone, but managing expanding platforms and handling security, complexities, documentation, business logic, all of that is still standing in the way for my company.

So you are correct saying that people can build projects with text, but I feel that “set and forget” has never been the case for all but the simplest software. Someone still has to manage all of it, I think. Whether trained in SE or not.

My guess is that developers who have experience can still outperform untrained people, though the builders who are curious by nature will quickly get up to speed. The game is changing but traditional developers have a huge upper hand, because we’ve always wanted to know how things work under the hood. I could have built the current vibe app that they built in a hour using AI, it’s taken them months.

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#86
It can already produce code for just about anything you can name. From implementations of browsers to micro-kernels. Yes, it doesn't yet one-shot any problem but my interactions lead me think it won't be long before that is automated. My intuition of how this will be done won't be with some elegant solution where any given step never fails. It will more be like swarms of interacting agents, loops, and formalised processes (themselves little more than frameworks of prompts), all inching towards the solution progressively and self-correcting when they go off course. This will be cheaper to do when models improve and cost less.

There is another bottleneck though and it's important: the personal computing needed to really do this well is ... expensive. What I mean is to even utilise this in a development process you need access to your own high-end hardware where the agents can run experiments fast. That requires (1) a lot of cores (2) and a lot of RAM. So there's a bottleneck in personal computing, too. Unfortunately, I really do think we're all screwed here. Increasingly: the most optimistic projections for what AI will be able to do are starting to become reality every few months. So the odds aren't looking good here.

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#87

We have been aggressively and enthusiastically automating away software engineering for the entire history of the computer industry. Every time we do so, we are able to build bigger, better things more quickly. When this happens, our work becomes more valuable and expectations rise to match. The world’s appetite for software has been insatiable so far. AI hasn’t replaced software engineers because every time we becom…

> we might finally become productive enough to exhaust the world’s appetite for software. I think we are past this point personally. Lots of blasphemously useless crap being built.

The useless box dates back to 1952, and the pet rock was a phenomenon for a while. If useless software bothers you, you've got to be pretty bothered quite a number of things. What do you think of video games?

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#88
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This absolutely fascinates me. I had a friend who needed subtitle files generating for audio and using in CapCut yesterday yet none of the available stuff was suitable, so he asked if I could adapt some of my software to export subtitles. 2 hours later he's got a fully working piece of local software that does exactly what he wants, yet yours is not able to even sort dates correctly. Feel free to download it if you w…

> How can there be such a massive gap in what can be produced? What I was doing looks really nice and mostly works on the surface, but it is all about the corner cases where these bugs appear. In another day I was able to generate Frida script with LLM help that bypasses Dart certificate pinning/validation and proxies all the traffic by injecting the runtime binaries. With the latest Flutter/Dart version on Android w…

Ahhh ok I totally understand what you mean. Yea the edge cases are absolutely where you start to feel the pain and things look good on the surface until you dig in. I think even in the age of LLMs the adage of 90% of the time is spent of the last 10% will ring true.

Sure an app can be built and spun up in an afternoon, but are you willing to spend another 6 months ironing out all those little bugs, tuning it a bit, testing, tweaking, testing etc.

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#89

It most certainly will replace software engineers. What's missing is, as the article suggests, the "Delivery" bit. But that's not the realm of software engineers, that's the realm of DevOps/SRE/Cloud engineers. I work as a cloud engineer and have been contacted by multiple non-engineering friends who have now been able to create their pet projects from scratch in different languages and have it running locally, as we…

We have an instance where the non-tech team has started building tooling for themselves (because the technical team is overburdened with work). Essentially a small application idea that interfaces with the larger system. It was POC built in 2-3 days, 3 or 4 commits. Impressive - however the person that built it has now made 400 more commits over the last 3 months to this project as it has been modified, it’s essentia…

In that sense, AI is creating software jobs. Not very good ones, and they're being paid way less, but a jobs a job, I guess. We have to face the music. it's not that AI will take software jobs, it's that it will make them pay a janitor's wages.

But while the AI isn't good enough to do it all, While there's still a vibe code wall that non-developers run into, senior developers will still have a job scaling that wall. That walls getting shorter as models get better, but for right now, this second, even with Anthropic's Fable, our jobs are safe.

We have to step back and look at the bigger picture though. Stable Diffusion came out and suddenly I could generate images that I didn't have the patience to use Photoshop or a pencil to create. But after playing with it for a couple of days, I got bored of it and went back to coding. Sora came out and at my fingertips I had the power to be a movie director. A couple of days later, I went back to writing code. Or by that point, directing AI agents to write code. So after the last software developer loses their job, having been replaced by robots, I can't imagine I won't still be the same person underneath. I build things that are as complicated as they need to be, but no more. Sometimes I even succeed.

Re: Why AI hasn't replaced software engineers, and won't

#90
post #48
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There truly is not. Software engineering is not different in any meaningful way. Sure 30 years ago in waterfall land we were emulating the project management of engineering, with miserably expensive results. But it's all the same now. It's like differentiation between coding and programming, it's different in everyone's head.

If there is no difference, then it is just the result of everyone inflating the term in their CVs/LinkedIn etc. Software developer typically is the one which builds typical CRUD app, front-end, back-end with database and something around that. Their main job is to make the software to apply clear business requirements on software level, while the software itself is not likely revolutionary. Or they are not the respon…

In a landscape like that, good luck proving to a hyper-cautious employer that you actually are a skilled software engineer and not just a larping ticket shuffler. In the near future, I fear the person who will decidedly be able to prove that with Olympiad placements or a swarm of unique side projects is the kind of person who might as well just go on and start his own tech startup. Most of us here at least have some track record of employment and seniority, I suspect brilliant junior engineers will be hopping from internship to internship like they do in top-level finance.
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