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European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

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Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#81

Post by mrtksn »

spwa4 wrote: post #79
scihuber wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does free will have to do with it? I know a lot of Ukrainians, and many of them are disappointed in the EU’s support. Let me say it again: I have friends who are fighting, and they often blame the EU for the lack of support—there aren’t enough people, you see. It’s a meat grinder; they need more equipment and automated systems! Just imagine how hard it must be for them right now, with Russian FPV-drones flying a…

Oh ... well the EU is not actually giving Ukraine much money at all. They are loaning money to them. The reward for Ukrainians' services and lives will be a century of paying back loans to the EU. Still better than being part of Russia, I guess, but. Why "free will" is critical, is because before Russia attacked, the Ukrainian government had the sense to not in a million years accept such a terrible deal from the EU.…

> EU is not actually giving Ukraine much money at all

You are confusing the latest 90B loan with all the other help. Also EU found a way to go around the vetoes by individual countries sending Ukraine help under EU coordination. The grants vs loans is more like 65 to 35 as a ratio.

Also lots of other half truths and unfair commentary, whatever...

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#82

Post by omnimus »

spwa4 wrote: post #78
rainingmonkey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence that Russian espionage backed the far left before 2006?

Are you really disputing that the Soviet Union used to back the far left in the west monetarily? Seriously? And no, they didn't really change who/how they backed for 20+ years.

The comment is just asking for evidence. I am curious too.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#83

Post by junaru »

rob74 wrote: post #54
junaru wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. How can you type such nonsense? Look at 2014 Crimean annexation - thats "how good they defended themselves" without western training and billions in weapon aid. After four years they have million plus dead but "this is fine" for the west.

[citation needed] - if I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain... , the only source that says that there are more than 1 million killed and wounded (!) Ukrainian soldiers is the Russian Ministry of Defense, which I wouldn't consider very trustworthy...

Fair. I stand corrected. First casualty of war is always the truth so both sides will lie.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#84

Post by TalkingCodeMonk »

spwa4 wrote: post #77
flohofwoe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia doesn't really differentiate between right and left when it comes to trying to destabilize Europe, they throw random shit against the wall and then focus on what sticks.

They used to though. Russian money was destined exclusively for the far-left before 2015 or so.

There is credible evidence that Trump — that bastion of the far-left — has been a Russian asset since the 1980's...

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#85

Post by rsynnott »

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “rival” or “adversary”.

Of course, note that Orban _lost_. I suspect that the far-right's Putin-fetishism is a marketing mistake on their part; "Russia is good, actually" may resonate with their base but is a very hard sell to anyone else.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#86

Post by TalkingCodeMonk »

pjc50 wrote: post #20
thefz wrote: post #10

With access to Internet in my late teens came the exposure to an intellectual, cultured leftist America I did not know existed. Now 20 years later, it really does not exist anymore. The US is a business,not a country, and it hates its own citizens.

"X is a land of contrasts" is a cliche, but: America is a land of contrasts. It manages to have elements both of shining city on the hill and squalid banana republic (resource extraction economy with poor rule of law) adjacent to each other. But yes, the main natural predator of Americans is other Americans.

Those contrasts only exist among the general population, which Americas political class have not represented for generations.

Can you give any examples of major corporations who do not have a verifiable history of corruption or anti-consumer/worker actions, not named costco?

Can you name more than 10 politicians over the last 50 years who would be considered leftist in the rest of the Anglo world?

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#87

Post by Markoff »

kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

any country should see any other country as rival, no matter whether it is Ukraine, US, China, Germany or Uganda, it is just common sense, you dont need any propaganda for that, especially considering cheap unregulated UA products flooding European markets destroying farmers livelihood while EU farmers have to obey much stricter standard and are then unable to compete on price without subsidies (just to be clear I would prefer to abolish all subsidies)

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#89

Post by Markoff »

rsynnott wrote: post #85

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

> Of course, note that Orban _lost_.

...to a former member of his party Magyar, who was his colleague 2 years ago in 2024. It's amusing how some people see Magyar as some big change coming to Hungary after Orban.

I don't think anyone genuinely likes Russia, it's more about stop pretending we suddenly like Ukraine, you know you can dislike them both at same time, right?

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#90

Post by marcyb5st »

knorker wrote: post #58
lyu07282 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the establishment position in the EU is that Trump is an outlier and that relations will normalize once he is removed from power, then business as usual can continue. Beyond that broad agreement with US - EU alignment on foreign policy (NATO, Ukraine, Israel, Iran, China) must continue even under Trump. Trump is even seen as an opportunity to convince Europeans to increase its own "NATO compatible" military spen…

> the establishment position in the EU is that Trump is an outlier and that relations will normalize once he is removed from power Is it? This is not entirely clear. And if it seemed the case, it's increasingly not looking realistic. It won't fully go back to normal, now that it's clear that the US is one election away from not only backing away from commitments, but itself threatening invasion of supposed allies. A…

Yeah I agree. As the saying goes: trust is built in drops and lost in buckets. A lot of time needs to pass while the US behaves as a proper ally if they want to go back to the status quo. At least IMHO as this is how I feel as an EU citizen.
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