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Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

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Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#81

Post by moron4hire »

hhjinks wrote: post #71
onion2k wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point the OP is making is that given the choice parents will always choose a 100% 'perfect' child who will live a happy and long life free from things that make it difficult. Until relatively recently this hasn't actually been a choice though - as much as you'd like that, you've not been about to tell much about the long term future of a foetus so you got what Mother Nature blessed you with. Increasingly though,…

Neither the OP nor you give a reason for why that's bad. I want my child to have all possible advantages in life. I'm sure most people want that. Why shouldn't we select for that? I'm interested in hearing an argument that doesn't go into anti-abortion territory.

It's an anti-reproductive rights argument. You have to first accept the premise that a fetus is a person. Once you've done that, then the premise that a fetus is a person seems obvious.

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#82

Post by moron4hire »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #78
hombre_fatal wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the amount of love, energy, and attention it takes to raise a kid, I don't see why I should care how selective somebody else wants to be.

This sort of thinking is incredibly dangerous to society at large, to say nothing of the danger to your own heart and soul. Character, beauty, love, sacrifice. Every one of these involves pain and it makes life worth living. You can't avoid pain, so you might as well engage it in service of those you hold dear. You should very much care about society wielding a sword like this, because historically we do not wield it…

There really is no point in leaning into avoidable pain. Pain does not "make you stronger". Pain is not "beauty". These are all bullshit tropes invented by abusers to keep people from questioning things.

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#83

Post by hombre_fatal »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #78
hombre_fatal wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the amount of love, energy, and attention it takes to raise a kid, I don't see why I should care how selective somebody else wants to be.

This sort of thinking is incredibly dangerous to society at large, to say nothing of the danger to your own heart and soul. Character, beauty, love, sacrifice. Every one of these involves pain and it makes life worth living. You can't avoid pain, so you might as well engage it in service of those you hold dear. You should very much care about society wielding a sword like this, because historically we do not wield it…

The sword being just deciding which embryos you will raise?

It's very easy to demand or promote sacrifices you expect other people to make. But I don't find that to be very empathetic.

I've already seen how society is when we shame and hand-wring about the personal decisions others make, and it's not one I want for my kids. At some point you need to be satisfied with your own decisions and then let other people make theirs.

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#84

Post by RealityVoid »

fabbbbb wrote: post #16

It reads like a specific genome would lead to deterministic outcomes. It does not. Life is messy. Most Down Syndrome people have happy lives, some can even live alone and have an independent daily live. Life expectancy is up to 60 years. Yet in Iceland „Democratization“ of genetic diagnosis lead to basically 0% Down Syndrome kids (births). Where does this stop? What with someone of a genetic indication of aggressive…

> lead to basically 0% Down Syndrome

Oh, the horror.

Listen, you have no idea what these people went through and judging them for not wanting to go through the same thing is shitty.

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#85

Post by RealityVoid »

codedokode wrote: post #77
otikik wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they going to prevent stealing of genetic code? With copyright? See how that went with AI.

This is why you should never consent to DNA collection because they will just keep it and sell it later without paying you a cent.

You know what? Good. If there is something good in it they can have it. Probably not a whole lot in my case, but still, if this enables people to have better lives, let them go at it!

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#86

Post by neves »

myzek wrote: post #23

My first son will be born in 2 months and I must say, between stories like this and others that I learned in antenatal classes - I have never been more terrified in my life

Wait till he becomes a teenager to see what's really terrifying

Just a joke. It will be marvelous. Savoir the first years. It's a lot of work, bad sleeping nights, but you'll have fond memories for life.

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#87

Post by Sammi »

fabbbbb wrote: post #16

It reads like a specific genome would lead to deterministic outcomes. It does not. Life is messy. Most Down Syndrome people have happy lives, some can even live alone and have an independent daily live. Life expectancy is up to 60 years. Yet in Iceland „Democratization“ of genetic diagnosis lead to basically 0% Down Syndrome kids (births). Where does this stop? What with someone of a genetic indication of aggressive…

It's not fair to people with Down Syndrome to romanticize and downplay their suffering. They all have to suffer with a strong disease their whole lives. Many are much to sick to part of "normal life" and we never see the really sick ones in public. We really only see the few one's that are doing exceptionally well. The rest are institutionalized. Many still die young. Many require invasive surgeries during early childhood.

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#88

Post by skt5 »

myzek wrote: post #23

My first son will be born in 2 months and I must say, between stories like this and others that I learned in antenatal classes - I have never been more terrified in my life

I'm in a similar boat too! I found verbalizing it with anyone who will listen helps the anxiety.

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#89

Post by onion2k »

hhjinks wrote: post #71
onion2k wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point the OP is making is that given the choice parents will always choose a 100% 'perfect' child who will live a happy and long life free from things that make it difficult. Until relatively recently this hasn't actually been a choice though - as much as you'd like that, you've not been about to tell much about the long term future of a foetus so you got what Mother Nature blessed you with. Increasingly though,…

Neither the OP nor you give a reason for why that's bad. I want my child to have all possible advantages in life. I'm sure most people want that. Why shouldn't we select for that? I'm interested in hearing an argument that doesn't go into anti-abortion territory.

There are a few reasons why it could be bad:

Access to the tech is probably unequal if it's done privately, which leads to polarization of society where rich people get even more opportunities than poor people. If you want equality of opportunity and an approximately meritocratic society then building a system to prejudice outcomes before kids are even born isn't ideal (although money and education already does this to an extent, those can be countered a bit by government policy; literally growing humans with genetic advantages can't.)

There's a world of potential for choosing foetuses based on criteria that are ethically catastrophic (no girls, no people who are 'impure', etc). You can argue that it's still parental choice even if the parents are terrible people, but normalizing the tech could be a disaster if a future fascist government gets into power. Imagine if the choice was removed from the parents and taken over by the state.

The foetus doesn't get a choice. This is straying very close to anti-abortion rhetoric admittedly, but if you believe that people should get a say in the outcome of their life, then aborting pregnancies based on a possible outcome that might not manifest for decades is very questionable. A baby that gets terminated because current medicine can't stop an aggressive cancer is having the opportunity to wait for medicine to improve taken away from them. Even ignoring the abortion side of things, you can question whether it's right to make that decision on their behalf.

Re: Vibe coding my way to a healthy family: Introducing Gamow Labs

#90

Post by addandsubtract »

skt5 wrote: post #88
myzek wrote: post #23

My first son will be born in 2 months and I must say, between stories like this and others that I learned in antenatal classes - I have never been more terrified in my life

I'm in a similar boat too! I found verbalizing it with anyone who will listen helps the anxiety.

Bayesian statistics to the rescue! You hear about the things that (can) go wrong a lot more, than the babies that are born without an issue. Basically, the opposite of survivorship bias? Anywho, millions of babies are born each day. Only 3-4% are born with a major birth defect or severe health issue (in the US) [0]. Now, a pregnant woman will undergo a routine screening, such as non-invasive prenatal test (NIPT) or a detailed anatomy ultrasound. With a positive test result, the probability of the baby being born healthy goes up to 99%+. Even with a negative test, the probability of the baby being healthy only drops to 80-50%, and then further testing will dial those probabilities in even more.

All this to say, all will be good – don't let the rare anecdotes get to you.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/birth-defects/data-research/facts-stats/...

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