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Dopamine Fracking

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Re: Dopamine Fracking

#81

Post by zimpenfish »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #71
zuzululu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Starbucks / Chipotle / Orange Theory / Target / Generic Brewery / Lime Scooter / Waymo / Subscribe N Save I've never been to any one of these except Starbucks but only like a six times and Chitpole ONCE. I've also never been to Taco Bell. McDonalds I've been to thirty times. I don't think I'm alone? These places don't have that exaggerated pull that is often discussed in alarmist articles. I guess I just don't eat…

I lived in Glasgow for 20-odd years, where you can get food from any region of any country in the world made by people from that region of that country, right there, fresh, right in front of you. I've also eaten Taco Bell. You're not missing much. It is much as you'd expect, a stepped-on Americanised parody of Mexican food. Even in the small north-eastern city of 150,000 people I live near now there are at least thre…

> The rest of those don't really exist in the UK (yet!).

Chipotle and Lime scooters do exist in the UK (and have for a while.) Waymo (I'm assuming the driverless taxis here) are just starting to appear in London. Apparently there's an Orange Theory Fitness in Derby (which has the same logo as the US one and therefore I'm assuming it's the same company.)

(Amazon and some smaller stores have been doing "subscribe and save" for years. But I'm not sure if that's the same thing?)

> [curry shop]

There was a great Thai place on one of the North Acton industrial estates back in ~2010 - tiny place, scuffed formica tables, terrifying grandmother taking your order, similarly small menu. Still the best Pad Thai I've had.

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#82

Post by veunes »

PeterStuer wrote: post #28
hattmall wrote: post #25

This has been happening in the real world for far longer. It's basically the experience of many modern cities, or even worse suburbs. Starbucks / Chipotle / Orange Theory / Target / Generic Brewery / Lime Scooter / Waymo / Subscribe N Save So much of modern life has been comodified to optimize for things that aren't necessarily what's inline with the users interests and certainly don't do anything for cultural robust…

I think a significant contributer to franchize style commoditized homogenization is modern anxiety. Millenials especially seem near exclusively drawn to the 'predictable' and curated 'peer approved' nature of recognizable 'safe' brand signals.

When housing, healthcare, work, social life all feel unstable, the predictable option starts looking less like boring conformity and more like one less decision that can go wrong

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#83

Post by sph »

vladms wrote: post #60
sph wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are seeing the effect for the cause. Humans (life in general) are effort minimizer machines, it doesn’t mean that maximum optimization is the ideal environment for a human to thrive. Any caveman would have loved to have to choose between favourite junk food franchises instead of risking his life chasing woolly mammoths not to starve.

From what I see, there are many people that don't want to be "bored" more than the people that don't want to be "tired". Of course there are many that want to be neither (so we get social media that gives you "not bored" and "not tired"), but I don't think we can generalize for 100% for neither category.

It helps to view it under a neurological perspective.

Not being bored = likely scrolling social media = dopamine release = the exact mechanism that reinforces patterns and behaviours in our brain, which under some conditions can reach stages of compulsion. I loath to blame the individual when these systems are designed to exploit flaws in human behaviour.

I recently read a self-help book by B.J. Fogg, a professor at Stanford Behavior Design Lab (formerly known as the Persuasive Technology Lab) that was boasting how he mentored the Instagram founders and helped them optimize their app for maximum engagement. The book itself was pretty good, but I couldn't help but think I'm reading the words of a complete sociopath that has indirectly caused untold psychological damage, and was pretty proud about it.

Is it Jane Doe's fault that she's now hopelessly addicted to Instagram?

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#84

Post by veunes »

raincole wrote: post #49

> The Strawberry Example Is this really the best example the author could come up with? If you want fresh strawberries, you can just go to a supermarket and buy them. In many places you can get a few pounds per for less than the money you earn in one hour . It's pretty much a heaven compared to pre-industrial days. But I guess the analogy of fracking is pretty spot on, just in a way the author didn't realize -- the c…

I don't think the point of the strawberry example is that industrialization failed to make strawberries cheaper or more available. It obviously did the opposite in many places. The point is more about what gets selected for when the whole system optimizes for scale, consistency, shelf life, lowest acceptable cost

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#85

Post by veunes »

kalx wrote: post #63

Great read, thanks. Just always consider what you are doing when you tag a friend in a meme: feeding your friend the internet drug. Is that what you wanna do to someone you care about?

Sending someone a dumb meme can also be a form of affection

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#86

Post by euazOn »

Reminds me of Slavoj Zizek’s classic example of synthetic sex (look it up), or his grievances about today’s academia: paper written by ChatGPT, peer reviewed by ChatGPT, and consumed by users as a synthesis from ChatGPT.

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#87

Post by vincnetas »

goodpoint wrote: post #75
sph wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are seeing the effect for the cause. Humans (life in general) are effort minimizer machines, it doesn’t mean that maximum optimization is the ideal environment for a human to thrive. Any caveman would have loved to have to choose between favourite junk food franchises instead of risking his life chasing woolly mammoths not to starve.

By this logic travel and tourism would not exist.

well, we are also a bit of pleasure machines also. And most of vacations are relaxing. So again optimisation.

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#88

Post by designerarvid »

hattmall wrote: post #25

This has been happening in the real world for far longer. It's basically the experience of many modern cities, or even worse suburbs. Starbucks / Chipotle / Orange Theory / Target / Generic Brewery / Lime Scooter / Waymo / Subscribe N Save So much of modern life has been comodified to optimize for things that aren't necessarily what's inline with the users interests and certainly don't do anything for cultural robust…

Guessing by your examples that you are American. Maybe you are aware, or perhaps not, that in Europe many view your culture as the one that has taken this to its extreme. Some envy it, some don’t.

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#89

Post by Traubenfuchs »

layer8 wrote: post #54
raincole wrote: post #49

> The Strawberry Example Is this really the best example the author could come up with? If you want fresh strawberries, you can just go to a supermarket and buy them. In many places you can get a few pounds per for less than the money you earn in one hour . It's pretty much a heaven compared to pre-industrial days. But I guess the analogy of fracking is pretty spot on, just in a way the author didn't realize -- the c…

Supermarket strawberries are often bad with not a lot of taste, and little variety, which is a result of their commodification.

Slightly strawberry flavored fiber sponges.

Re: Dopamine Fracking

#90

Post by nicbou »

epolanski wrote: post #69

When renovating my house and discussing solutions with my girlfriend I noticed that she (but me too to large extent and most of my millennial friends) felt towards Airbnb-ification. Good taste and style apparently converged towards generic Airbnb-like design of mixing wood lights, furniture, etc in a certain manner. This is a well known phenomenon and going around the world, whether in Tokyo, Mumbai, Munich or Dallas…

This year especially, fashion in Berlin has converged to light blue jeans and white t-shirt. It’s as if fashion got distilled into something easily seized, but ever more rapidly rotating.
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