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The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

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Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#81

Post by altern8 »

krapp wrote: post #68
altern8 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that in any dictionary, though? Capitalism means capitalism, free market with citizens owning companies. If it's deeply entangled in the Protestant work ethic and prosperity gospel ideals in the U.S., then what's bad is the Protestant work ethic and prosperity gospel--whatever that might be.

Capitalism is what capitalism does. Name one "capitalist" economy strictly and exclusively defined by a "free market with citizens owning companies." None. There are no free markets. Governments always own some interest in companies, regulate and interfere in markets. Culture and morality always influence class and power hierarchies, and by extension economic systems. The real world is more complex than dictionary de…

Right, I agree that governments should stay out of people's business.

If you're saying that governments always mess with the free market, then I guess we're in socialist-capitalist economic systems..? Still better than just socialist.

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#82

Post by altern8 »

pebble wrote: post #77
altern8 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly. Which is good, I can't figure out how anybody can see the government owning everything as a good thing for anyone. If you just look at postal services across the world, as an example, or anything else run by government, they're 100 times less efficient then competitors and their workers always look like they're super-miserable. Imagine if that was the only option.

Less efficient or less profitable? Also I'm gonna need to see some references for those claims in your last paragraph. Funnily enough it's the couriers working for the private companies that I see looking more and more dead inside recently. So, yknow, anecdote for an anecdote.

I would say both less efficient and less profitable.

If you're saying FedEx people are also depressed, then maybe it's just delivering boxes that's the problem?

But I think it's pretty safe to say that there is nobody more pissed off than post office workers. Are they nice in Estonia? Luckily I do most stuff online nowadays but when I have to go to the post office it's always an awful experience.

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#83

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

altern8 wrote: post #19
wccrawford wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm full stack for 19 years and I love React, and I've been laid off for 1.5 years now. This is a terrible job market right now. That doesn't mean you don't have good skills, it just means that too many people have them. It happens from time to time in every industrial, for all skills. Obviously, I don't have any good advice about how to deal with it.

You mean you haven't been working for 1 1/2 years? How do you buy food?

> I'm full stack for 19 years

That's the key.

I've been an AppSec engineer for about 12 years, but it wasn't until about 5 years ago I started working somewhere that actually paid a market rate. I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck for the first 7 years, but certainly wasn't putting much away.

Now, I've got nearly a full year of after-tax paychecks in savings. I could easily go ~18 months without pay without a change in lifestyle. I could stretch it out to 3 years with some belt tightening.

In about 6 more years, the house will be paid off and any savings I have could last even longer.

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#84

Post by krapp »

altern8 wrote: post #81
krapp wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is what capitalism does. Name one "capitalist" economy strictly and exclusively defined by a "free market with citizens owning companies." None. There are no free markets. Governments always own some interest in companies, regulate and interfere in markets. Culture and morality always influence class and power hierarchies, and by extension economic systems. The real world is more complex than dictionary de…

Right, I agree that governments should stay out of people's business. If you're saying that governments always mess with the free market, then I guess we're in socialist-capitalist economic systems..? Still better than just socialist.

If your definition of capitalism requires pure free markets, and you consider any regulation of markets by government to be socialism, then yes all existing economic systems are socialist and no capitalist systems exist.

Personally I don't find a framework so reductionist that it considers the USSR and the US to be equivalent to be very useful.

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#85

Post by altern8 »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #83
altern8 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean you haven't been working for 1 1/2 years? How do you buy food?

> I'm full stack for 19 years That's the key. I've been an AppSec engineer for about 12 years, but it wasn't until about 5 years ago I started working somewhere that actually paid a market rate. I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck for the first 7 years, but certainly wasn't putting much away. Now, I've got nearly a full year of after-tax paychecks in savings. I could easily go ~18 months without pay without a change…

Got it. I need to start saving some money.

Hope you find another job soon!

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#86

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

altern8 wrote: post #36
vkou wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they haven't been living paycheck to paycheck for the past 19. It's not that difficult for a SWE in North America.

Yes, I guess investments, etc., but 1.5 years is a long time. I don't think I could go more than 2-3 months. Maybe I should start saving some money.

Location matters a LOT.

The parent comment mentioned North America. This is huge. Tech salaries in Europe are half what they are in NA. In India, they're like 1/4 to 1/3.

Saving is absolutely important, especially in such a layoff-ridden industry. You should really strive to get at least 6 months of living expenses into savings.

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#87

Post by happytoexplain »

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #71
hyperhello wrote: post #3

Your company is laying people off because they need something to do. They’re goalless in the extreme and relying on big talk and big action about the latest fad. You don’t have leaders, you have owners. You must look around and see the lack of men, and force yourself to become one.

> You must look around and see the lack of men, and force yourself to become one. As a man I need you to expand on this because I'm trying to imagine what concrete actions you think "a man" would do in this circumstance, and of the things I've come up with the only one I think I'm allowed to say on this forum is "quit and find a new job."

Why complicate this? It's a well defined, harmless phrase. We don't have to pretend it's a touchy gender-related issue.

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#88

Post by pebble »

altern8 wrote: post #82
pebble wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less efficient or less profitable? Also I'm gonna need to see some references for those claims in your last paragraph. Funnily enough it's the couriers working for the private companies that I see looking more and more dead inside recently. So, yknow, anecdote for an anecdote.

I would say both less efficient and less profitable. If you're saying FedEx people are also depressed, then maybe it's just delivering boxes that's the problem? But I think it's pretty safe to say that there is nobody more pissed off than post office workers. Are they nice in Estonia? Luckily I do most stuff online nowadays but when I have to go to the post office it's always an awful experience.

I would say it's more likely that the hours and wages are the problem.

A few grumpy delivery workers aside, most people in Estonia are nice in general. You should come visit :)

I don't know where you are but consider that the reasons your postal workers are pissed of may go deeper than simply being government employed. Could it be your state-owned services are being managed in way that makes their workers unhappy because they are run by people who think that government services even need to be profitable in the first place?

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#89

Post by altern8 »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #86
altern8 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I guess investments, etc., but 1.5 years is a long time. I don't think I could go more than 2-3 months. Maybe I should start saving some money.

Location matters a LOT. The parent comment mentioned North America. This is huge. Tech salaries in Europe are half what they are in NA. In India, they're like 1/4 to 1/3. Saving is absolutely important, especially in such a layoff-ridden industry. You should really strive to get at least 6 months of living expenses into savings.

I know but there's always something shiny that keeps me away from that goal.

But I keep reading about people getting fired because of AI and every time I do I get progressively more anxious and closer to getting start on that.

Re: The company I work for is losing all of its humanity, I don't know where to go

#90

Post by appreciatorBus »

reaperducer wrote: post #52
appreciatorBus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is being asked to show up and clock in making things worse?

Full-time, white collar workers generally are not expected to "clock in" in the United States. It's why certain employees are legally exempt from overtime pay. To ask exempt employees to clock in and out demonstrates that management doesn't trust its employees, which is a failure on the part of hiring/management, not the workers.

Individuals making 3x the national median income are not "workers" by any definition. They are a part of the elite, top 10% of society. They will survive!
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