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My Students Can't Read

chronicle.com

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Re: My Students Can't Read

#81

Do we have the courage to do what's necessary to fix education in the United States? That is: - abolish teachers unions - fail / keep back students who don't meet standards, in a completely objective fashion with no regard for racial / ethnic / gender sensitivities

Maybe read TFA. It has supporting evidence for the actual causes, not imaginary ones.

Re: My Students Can't Read

#82
post #28

We really need to make high school diplomas mean something again. However, this means something like a 35% fail rate. Unfortunately, the populace would not accept that and so every credential gets inflated to worthlessness. 90%+ of all people in undergrad and 50% of grad school probably shouldn’t be there. They just want the credential, to get the job, to get the money. This is understandable but there is no interest…

> 90%+ of all people in undergrad

I'm not sure if you realize you're basically saying most people with an IQ two standard deviations above the mean should not be pursuing higher education. Currently 40% of young adults are in higher education in the US. (based on a quick google, percent could be wrong, i also saw 60% pursue it at some point)

As a heuristic, let's assume they're the 40% with the highest IQ.

If 90% of them shouldn't be there, then you're effectively saying only the highest 4% IQ individuals should be there.

Two standard deviations cuts out 95% of people. What a very high standard. And I'm not even getting into the mountains of research that higher education makes workers better at their jobs, ceteris paribus.

So you're saying genius-level people don't belong at uni.

Re: My Students Can't Read

#83
post #72
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally any college grad that: 1. Takes out six figures of loans for a degree in a field with no hope of commensurate income 2. Pays minimum payments below interest 3. Whines on social media that after X years of not even covering the interest payment they now owe more than ever Should: 1. Lose both their college and HS degrees. They clearly dont understand HS math. 2. Their college’s accreditation should be inv…

So your solution for the system failing a person is to punish the person but reward the powerful people engaged in the bad behavior. The ones who brainwashed the kids into thinking that this is what they're supposed to do.

No, the people giving degrees that say a person can do basic math when the person can’t do math should not be able to give out degrees anymore.

Similarly, the person with the credential that says they can do basic math that cannot do basic math should not have the credential.

Re: My Students Can't Read

#84
Yep. Smartphones and social media were the jab, jab, and now AI is the knockout punch. We're raising a generation of people who quite literally do not know how to think for themselves and completely lack the motivation (and attention span required) to even try.

Re: My Students Can't Read

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring years of schooling that is essentially worthless / provides credentials with no information also has disparate impacts, possibly worse than just properly failing people and letting them sort themselves / be sorted into positions that are actually suitable for them and allow real growth. Schooling is a huge percentage of a modern person's life now.

Are you willing to risk a lawsuit to stand on your principles? Could you prove the disparate impact is random and your pass criteria isn’t racist?

> Could you prove the disparate impact is random and your pass criteria isn’t racist?

Can those in favor of grade inflation and meaningless credentials prove their decisions also don't have disparate impact and aren't racist? Based on some recent US Supreme Court decisions re: affirmative action, it would seem unlikely this case would be any different. The hard questions about long-term harms to students and society are simply not being asked seriously enough.

Re: My Students Can't Read

#86
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know formerly smart people, the same people are phone addicts. They’re not kids. It definitely has something to do with it. I’m not convinced the best way to discuss it is long form article. Nor do I know how to fix it, no majority group is going to give up their phones.

It's an attention issue. We have these phones with constant dopamine hits. We were getting it a little bit on the web before the rise of smartphones, but it's just out of control now. We have 100 apps constantly vying for our attention and giving us endless things to scroll through. The only thing that fixes it is to put the phone down. Do something else. Play video games. Read books. Go outside. Anything to stay awa…

Agreed with all of the above, except the "100s of apps."

Turning notifications off of most apps solves a bunch of little problems.

The big problems need to be forcibly named at every chance. In no particular order, youtube, tiktok, insta, facebook (or meta?), are all guilty of making the world a worse place. Reddit and twitter's endless scroll is bad, too, but it seems their content got so bad the addiction is less strong there, like poop-flavored cigarettes.

Re: My Students Can't Read

#87

Do we have the courage to do what's necessary to fix education in the United States? That is: - abolish teachers unions - fail / keep back students who don't meet standards, in a completely objective fashion with no regard for racial / ethnic / gender sensitivities

Perhaps we can take some guidance from college teaching, which has effectively abolished unions. Well over half of college level teaching is done by adjuncts, who are not on the tenure track and have no training or licensing requirements.

Re: My Students Can't Read

#88

Do we have the courage to do what's necessary to fix education in the United States? That is: - abolish teachers unions - fail / keep back students who don't meet standards, in a completely objective fashion with no regard for racial / ethnic / gender sensitivities

So eliminate their bargaining power and job and wage protections because parents aren't doing their part to ensure their kids are learning? Doesn't seem fair to me.

Re: My Students Can't Read

#89
post #67
post #28

We really need to make high school diplomas mean something again. However, this means something like a 35% fail rate. Unfortunately, the populace would not accept that and so every credential gets inflated to worthlessness. 90%+ of all people in undergrad and 50% of grad school probably shouldn’t be there. They just want the credential, to get the job, to get the money. This is understandable but there is no interest…

Additionally any college grad that: 1. Takes out six figures of loans for a degree in a field with no hope of commensurate income 2. Pays minimum payments below interest 3. Whines on social media that after X years of not even covering the interest payment they now owe more than ever Should: 1. Lose both their college and HS degrees. They clearly dont understand HS math. 2. Their college’s accreditation should be inv…

[flagged]

Re: My Students Can't Read

#90
post #82
post #28

We really need to make high school diplomas mean something again. However, this means something like a 35% fail rate. Unfortunately, the populace would not accept that and so every credential gets inflated to worthlessness. 90%+ of all people in undergrad and 50% of grad school probably shouldn’t be there. They just want the credential, to get the job, to get the money. This is understandable but there is no interest…

> 90%+ of all people in undergrad I'm not sure if you realize you're basically saying most people with an IQ two standard deviations above the mean should not be pursuing higher education. Currently 40% of young adults are in higher education in the US. (based on a quick google, percent could be wrong, i also saw 60% pursue it at some point ) As a heuristic, let's assume they're the 40% with the highest IQ. If 90% of…

In short yes. Top 10% is not genius level. You see the outcome of this all the time at the PhD level. Even top 2% often just does not cut it when trying to do novel research. So many PhD’s get stuck in the post-doc adjunct cycle with never a real shot at tenure.

That is fine. Nothing to feel bad about. But also we don’t want our top 10% but not 2% to waste eight plus years and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Again, this is all dedicated on the high school diploma being actually hard and valuable. Associates degree replace undergrads, undergrad replace masters, etc.

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