Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 219 posts

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#81

Post by evrydayhustling »

woeirua wrote: post #31

Data centers are easy to fight against because there is no constituency really pulling for them. They create only a handful of jobs. Ultimately the entire thing is a waste of time, data centers can be built basically anywhere, and that's why a lot of them are moving to rural red states where they welcome the construction. The fight against AI should just be about taxing token usage. We should also tax the hell out of…

> data centers can be built basically anywhere

this is especially true for AI use cases, where compute is hugely more important than latency / bandwidth

> you have to provide a bonus pool that goes dollar-for-dollar for any buybacks or dividends you do.

So, reallocate some exec comp to a pool that gets bigger when you give shareholders back money?

Would be great to balance the market better between labor and capital, but there's no easy button...

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#82

Post by bluGill »

catigula wrote: post #50
woeirua wrote: post #31

Data centers are easy to fight against because there is no constituency really pulling for them. They create only a handful of jobs. Ultimately the entire thing is a waste of time, data centers can be built basically anywhere, and that's why a lot of them are moving to rural red states where they welcome the construction. The fight against AI should just be about taxing token usage. We should also tax the hell out of…

It should be illegal to lay workers off for AI like it is in China, where sensible policy exists.

I have long said that AI is an excuse, but in reality people are not laid off for AI. People are laid off for the economy or "restructuring", and they use the fad of the day - which is AI these days - as a reason.

If it was AI they would take those extra people to get more done. I know of no company that doesn't have more work than they have people. (but they lack the funds/ROI to pay more people)

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#83

Post by gensym »

vmg12 wrote: post #46

I think its a mistake to fight datacenters and AI. Taking a step back, if the US unilaterally stops producing AI will other countries stop? The answer is clearly no. Datacenters and ai can be built and trained anywhere. If you want control over AI you should want it to be built in your own country where you have political representation. All preventing datacenter buildout will do is ensure that the price remains high…

For people worried about their livelihoods, there's value in slowing AI adoption to give our economy time to transition rather than just throwing a lot of people out of work all at the same time.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#84

Post by UtopiaPunk »

vmg12 wrote: post #46

I think its a mistake to fight datacenters and AI. Taking a step back, if the US unilaterally stops producing AI will other countries stop? The answer is clearly no. Datacenters and ai can be built and trained anywhere. If you want control over AI you should want it to be built in your own country where you have political representation. All preventing datacenter buildout will do is ensure that the price remains high…

You're starting with an assumption that AI is, on the whole, a net positive for society. A lot of people would disagree.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#85

Post by mjr00 »

cratermoon wrote: post #71
mjr00 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes 870 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of wine -- if people were genuinely protesting water waste it would be a good idea to start there. Almonds too.

I like wine and almonds. They are valuable commodities with a variety of uses and anyone can enjoy them for a modest price. They can be used and made into many additional valuable things, from sangria to baklava. What can LLMs do for me?

I am glad you like some things. Some people like other things, such as LLMs, or hosted server infrastructure.

Now explain to me why you are allowed to have the things you like which use a lot of water, while other people are not allowed to have the things they like which use a lot of water.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#86

Post by jeltz »

mattas wrote: post #28
jmyeet wrote: post #12

No, it's not a proxy fight about AI. The data centers are just bad, for several, easy-to-explain reasons: 1. They get massive tax breaks; 2. Everyone else pays for the electricity infrastructure that they need to suppor tthem; 3. They pollute water supplies; 4. Everybody's electricity prices go up while the DC has a sweetheart deal that, again, everyone else is paying for; 5. There are no jobs unlike, say, if someone…

In theory, let's say that a data center was proposed that: 1. got no tax breaks 2. self-generated electricity with greenest of green generation 3. did not pollute water supplies 4. made electricity prices go down somehow 5. (can't figure out a theoretical version where there are lots of jobs, sorry) 6. was extremely quiet Would people still be mad about them? I'm trying to figure out if the bad reasons are the _actua…

Yes, people were mad about them due to the tax breaks here in Sweden long before LLMs were a thing.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#87

Post by philipwhiuk »

catigula wrote: post #62
philipwhiuk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just lay them off for another reason I mean if AI is really powerful the reason is "profitability as our competitor steals our contracts at a fraction of the price". Your competitor just doesn't hire in the first place of course.

[flagged]

Well done, you've saved human jobs at a cost of lowering the salary to fractions.

(Until the bots are still more efficient)

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#88

Post by aspenmartin »

everdrive wrote: post #5

Well realistically both are bad. Right now our government is purely dysfunctional, so I'm not sure anyone knows how to fight anything. We have a eunuch Congress, and in response each party just tries to push executive power as far as possible, never once considering that someone they dislike could get elected in the future and use that expanded power in a negative way. I'm sure that right at this moment at least some…

What reigning in would you do if you had the power to do it for the US?

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#89

Post by goatlover »

gamerslexus wrote: post #41

If you fight either of those things in the US, you should do so carefully, as it may get you to be targeted by FBI and DHS as an extremist actor as per current government's policy as of approximately a week ago. This is a wall of text but genuinely worth skimming: https://www.wired.com/story/us-law-enforcement-warns-of-anti...

This is one way you know billionaires have too much sway over the government.
Post reply on HN