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McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

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Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#81

Post by lalc »

eshvk wrote: post #11
melling wrote: post #9

I spent 9 months backpacking from Guatemala to Buenos Aires. There are thousands of people who do this sort of thing every year, and you'll meet lots of expats. In fact, until you hit Colombia, you probably can get by without knowing much Spanish. Personally, I would just skip this article, buy the Lonely Planet and live a little. Some places that I'd recommend seeing: http://wikitravel.org/en/Antigua_Guatemala http:…

I would be interested in visiting some or most of these countries in a few years time. At the risk of sounding cliched, I don't obviously want the touristy experience but want to experience the country(ies) and am prepared to do that for a few months. I currently know zero spanish, do you suggest picking up a guide book or should I invest time learning it at a school (I live in SF)?

Duolingo.

Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#83

Post by 4ad »

jacquesm wrote: post #70
psykotic wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In all the years of doing this, I've had an official try to shake me down maybe 5 times. Corruption in most of these countries is a negotiation game that is conducted implicitly. That's why playing dumb is so effective--if you don't know the rules of the game, you can't play, especially if you don't share a language. So, for every time where someone has forcefully pressed the point and made it clear to you that a b…

> That's why playing dumb is so effective--if you don't know the rules of the game, you can't play And that really is the best defence.

For tourists, yes, it usually works. For locals, people who suffer most from the system, it does not.

Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#84

Post by jre »

nlh wrote: post #12

I find reading articles like this exhausting. I've got to imagine being a criminal/sketchball while on the road in whatever country you're in is equally exhausting. Is it not just possible to travel abroad, carry proper documentation, a bit of cash, and enjoy yourself? Does every situation really require constant vigilance to knowing when to run or not, how to make eye-contact, when to make excuses, etc.? Perhaps I'm…

I felt the same and I've lived, worked and travelled in Colombia for 4 months. I never had to bribe anybody and didn't have any problem with the police or criminals. I enjoyed every single minute of it.

The only thing I did differently than in Europe was I would talk to locals before going for a walk in a random neighborhood at night and use taxis (which are so cheap anyway) instead of walking at night.

Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#85

Post by 4ad »

ghshephard wrote: post #3

Is there anyone who has lived in one of these South American areas like Belize for a long time able to confirm any of this system of paying bribes to police officers at traffic stops? Also, is his statement about police 'planting drugs' just so much self serving nonsense, or has anyone ever had a police officer actually do that? The entire essay sounds somewhat specious to me...

I lived in Romania for 20 years, a country more civilized (I use that term very loosely) than Belize, and even here, what he is describing is very common. In fact, the article doesn't describe the full picture. The bribery is not only with the police, is with everybody in a public function. This includes any bureaucrat (believe me, we had many) and doctors. No bribery, poor or nonexistent treatment.

There are some people in this thread who suggest that the problem is that people accept the status quo. That if nobody would pay anymore, the system would fix itself. There's a huge cultural gap that makes this hard to understand, but people in these countries don't want to end the exploitation, they want to become the exploiters themselves! The mechanism that allow the system to continue are reinforced by the new players. There's a feedback loop in place that makes sure the system accepts only a certain kind of new players.

Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#86

Post by ido »

jacquesm wrote: post #68
unreal37 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only been to 30 countries. And I've had to bribe a police officer at a traffic stop for not wearing a seat belt. Was about $5 which I think is extremely cheap to bribe a cop for. In Toronto it would be wayyyy more. I've also been told by a local to stick a $20 bill in my passport to avoid problems going through customs because we had expensive computer equipment on us and were in a rush for our next flight. I re…

> In Toronto it would be wayyyy more. Have you actually bribed a Canadian police officer?

I think he meant the fine for not wearing a seat-belt would have been higher (and he would pay it instead of bribing the officer, which is probably a good idea in relatively non-corrupt wealthy first world countries).

Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#87

Post by raverbashing »

jacquesm wrote: post #66
adinb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar situation in Rome, Italy of all places...was shaken down by a subway officer for having 'invalid stamps' on our subway passes (they were obviously completely valid). If we just paid a fine of xx euros directly to him, everything would be just fine...otherwise, he'd need to take us to the station, delay us (we were military and in the country for a NATO conference) to the point we'd miss our meeting. B…

You did that wrong. The trick is when you go out for a day to keep your wallet empty of cash, simply have your cards in there but no money. I've travelled just about anywhere like this and the 'sorry man, no cash' works fine every time (I have some in my back pocket but I'm not going to tell a guy like this about that). I also instantly lose any ability to speak a word of the local language and my English, so they're…

You managed to get out of it nicely

Coming from a country where these things are common (probably midway in the "corruption scale" between Central America and Italy) I'd say I have to agree

Still the best defense seems to be "don't look like a tourist".

Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#88

Post by jacquesm »

raverbashing wrote: post #87
jacquesm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did that wrong. The trick is when you go out for a day to keep your wallet empty of cash, simply have your cards in there but no money. I've travelled just about anywhere like this and the 'sorry man, no cash' works fine every time (I have some in my back pocket but I'm not going to tell a guy like this about that). I also instantly lose any ability to speak a word of the local language and my English, so they're…

You managed to get out of it nicely Coming from a country where these things are common (probably midway in the "corruption scale" between Central America and Italy) I'd say I have to agree Still the best defense seems to be "don't look like a tourist".

> Still the best defense seems to be "don't look like a tourist".

Yes, absolutely. What also helps is to have a physique that doesn't stand out (hair, eye-colour, height).

When on foot with my gear stashed I can manage that just fine (no camera, not obviously sightseeing) but it gets a lot harder when you drive your own car abroad or when you've just arrived somewhere.

Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#89

Post by raverbashing »

mahmud wrote: post #47
CamperBob2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How am I supposed to have anything but contempt, if even 25% of what he writes is true? Don't want my contempt? Don't run your country like a corrupt shithole. Seems simple enough.

He says right there he was dealing and trafficking drugs, and traveling to meet narcos. The countries are run like corrupt shitholes precisely because gringos like McAfee poison the community with their dirty money. Every society has its dark underbelly of criminals, but what narco and sex-tourism money does is tip the scales of power in those societies in favor of the criminals. Suddenly, the poor but honest technoc…

" Suddenly, the poor but honest technocrats running the country"

Very funny. No

More likely the Farmer/Sheriff/Mayor's cousin (that's not 'or' but 'and') at the local branches, and some of them that rises to governor, even president. And don't even think they're not in the "business", it's run with their permission (but of course it's not them that do the dirty work)

Re: McAfee’s Third World Travel Guide

#90

Post by ZoFreX »

stevoski wrote: post #26

I've been to 93 countries. All continents. Places travellers would normally not contemplate visiting. All independently. I've _never_ had to bribe someone. In all the years of doing this, I've had an official try to shake me down maybe 5 times. I think McAfee's advice is way off.

I can tell you now there are countries where it isn't optional. It probably depends on when you're there and where in the country you are, as well as what you look like. I was driving through Russia in a right-hand-drive vehicle which has roughly the same effect as writing CHUMP in foot-high letters on the side of your vehicle. We got pulled over 12 times in one day by policemen looking for bribes, when we had done nothing wrong (if you do actually commit a minor traffic offense and get pulled over, they're even more aggressive about getting money out of you).

It is perfectly possible to get through without bribing them in cash, and we did - we only ever gave out cigarettes. At one point though they did take one person from our group away from us, to a windowless cell with a chair in the middle, and interrogated him for a while. They were just trying to scare him into giving them money though, we managed to get out of that through a combination of persistence (both in not relenting, and pretending we didn't understand their broken English), name dropping ("I want to speak to the British embassy") and one of our group bursting into tears (no one likes dealing with someone crying, including Russian policemen).

I haven't been to Ukraine, but people I spoke to who took that route found it to be even worse than what we experienced in Russia.

Oh, and fun fact: The Western-most country where a policeman wanted a bribe was the Czech Republic. I was surprised!

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