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Why Japanese companies do so many different things

davidoks.blog

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Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#81

Post by qurren »

jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

> how Westerners idealize Japan

Westerners are taught by the media and education to idealize Japan and hate China almost everywhere. They present cherry-picked aspects of both countries that make China look bad and Japan look good. In reality every country has its good and bad aspects.

This is just part of the propaganda machine and what politicians want you to believe, in an effort to align their populations to be supportive of their foreign policy and military motives. That ultimately trickles down to things like this. When people come to HN, or any place, with rose-colored glasses of Japan, they will seek confirmations of that rose color everywhere.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#82

Post by munificent »

monkaiju wrote: post #26
cm2012 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do also think there's a charm to this model but there's a real cost also with Japan's economy stagnating compared to the United States in the last 30 years.

Perhaps, but in terms of the average Japanese persons day to day experience it doesn't seem so bad. They outrank us in almost all QoL measures

* Japan is ranked 61st on the World Happiness Index. The US is 23rd.

* Japan is ranked 23rd on the Human Development Index. The US is 17th.

* However, Japan is ranked 8th on the US News Quality of Life Index. The US is 30th.

Grass is greener on the other side.

https://data.worldhappiness.report/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-fo...

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#83

Post by throwaway2037 »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #68
MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who finds Japanese corporate culture interesting or even desirable in some ways, it definitely doesn't seem like the most efficient way to run a company. And I'm sure there are plenty of cultural aspects that would not be my cup of tea.

I've worked for an American megacorp and the branch office of a Japanese company. The Japanese company felt a lot more humane on balance, though it doesn't express as well when I write it. The Japanese company had some rituals were a bit weird, but harmless/charmingly quaint like mandatory volunteer days, keeping a copy of the founder's precepts on my desk for executive walkthroughs. They also had some bad tendencies…

Let me summarise your post: Pro-corporation, anti-employee.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#84

Post by jagged-chisel »

jodacola wrote: post #20
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

> It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. Quite the opposite - for me, anyway. FWIW, as a Westerner, I find the Mondragon Corporation to be fascinating and something I've read a lot about because there's no way we've figured out the ideal sort of setup for a business (or…

Let’s not confuse “romanticism” with “intrigue.” Things can be interesting and intriguing without being ideal targets.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#85

Post by marcosdumay »

Aunche wrote: post #72
pstuart wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it should be. The pay gap from CEO to bottom tier worker is now obscene (21 times in 1965 and ~285 today). It's the foxes looking after the henhouses.

Not sure why the left cares so much about CEO to work pay ratio these days, especially when Marx himself recognized that ownership was the true source inequality. A CEO is just a really well paid worker. Even CEOs who become billionaires do so from capital appreciation more than compensation.

Because Marx theories do not hold up to reality, and most people can plainly see it.

How is it working for the US to have every company mostly owned by the general public's retirement funds?

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#86

Post by gigatree »

amunozo wrote: post #28
jodacola wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. Quite the opposite - for me, anyway. FWIW, as a Westerner, I find the Mondragon Corporation to be fascinating and something I've read a lot about because there's no way we've figured out the ideal sort of setup for a business (or…

Same thing, being Spanish the Basque Cooperatives movement is fascinating. Do you have any recommended read about it?

The most recent video I could find about this was from like 7 years ago, very weird

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#87

Post by blowscum »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #68
MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who finds Japanese corporate culture interesting or even desirable in some ways, it definitely doesn't seem like the most efficient way to run a company. And I'm sure there are plenty of cultural aspects that would not be my cup of tea.

I've worked for an American megacorp and the branch office of a Japanese company. The Japanese company felt a lot more humane on balance, though it doesn't express as well when I write it. The Japanese company had some rituals were a bit weird, but harmless/charmingly quaint like mandatory volunteer days, keeping a copy of the founder's precepts on my desk for executive walkthroughs. They also had some bad tendencies…

> The employer was constantly involving themselves with US national politics, but employees were expected to refrain from having political opinions of their own.

Reminds me of my first job in state government where the incredibly underpaid workers had to go through bureaucratic paperwork if they needed a second job to pay the rent (ostensibly because of the conflict of interest risk)

Yet the governor was a known slumlord. I’m sure there’s no potential conflict of interest there.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#88

Post by throwaway2037 »

ryukoposting wrote: post #45
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

I'll preface this by saying there are lots of other factors at play, but here's an interesting one I can speak to personally: Car culture. We're a very car-centric society, and the Japanese auto makers have been a part everyday life to 3 full generations of Americans now. Even most Baby Boomers are too young to remember a world without Honda or Toyota. Across all age groups, a lot more Americans grew up with a fondne…

    > We're a very car-centric society, and the Japanese auto makers have been a part everyday life to 3 full generations of Americans now.
I assume "we" are Americans.

I keep writing this over and over again on HN: There are NO highly developed non-micro states that are not car centric outside of major cities. Yes, literally, Japan, outside of a few large cities, is incredibly car centric. Sure, the cars are small and cute, but it is defintely car centric!

    > Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Yamaha, they've all been here a really long time.
They came for a single reason: To avoid import tariffs. Please stop romanticising this for any other reason.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#90

Post by unsignedint »

While things like the expectation of lifetime employment (or at least very long tenure) may sound appealing, it also creates a job market with very low fluidity. In practice, if you miss that narrow “fresh out of school” hiring window, you can end up facing pretty unfavorable prospects later on.

People can still get hired mid-career, of course, but many companies traditionally hire based more on long-term potential than immediately usable skills, since they expect to train employees heavily through OJT. That also means the number of openings for experienced hires can be relatively limited. And because of the seniority-based structure, even experienced workers may end up starting near the bottom anyway.

There was an entire generation of people who missed that initial hiring window because of economic downturns and hiring freezes, and many of them still struggle to land stable permanent positions even today.

Things are gradually changing, but many structural assumptions are still there. For example, parts of the legal and employment system are historically built around the assumption of lifetime employment, which also makes it difficult for companies to dismiss permanent employees once they are hired.

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