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News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

niemanlab.org

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Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#81

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

The article is about AI companies using the Internet Archive to source training data, not about people using it to avoid paywalls. AI companies don't care that the data is one week old.

[dead]

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#82
This is rather worrying for fact checkers and those that want to track changes to news articles. The amount of times I've seen articles either get silently edited or go missing entirely is far higher than I'd have liked.

The Internet Archive at least provides one solution there, especially given the somewhat dubious practices Archive.is/today seems to be up to at the moment.

But I suspect that's probably another reason these sites don't want their work archived.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#83

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

I'd rather let Archive block access to that specific article for a while, but still archiving from the start.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#84
post #68

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

Greed and spite.

You people need to stop saying this. You're being greedy when you buy groceries from a cheaper supermarket. You're being greedy when you negotiate your salary or choose a job based on pay, or anything where you're trying to get more stuff for yourself. Those things are all perfectly good behaviors, they make the world more productive, so everyone wins overall. Greed isn't a problem.

Spite? No evidence of that. They probably just don't want to lose the money from paying customers and ads. You're just making up fantasy. Perhaps projecting your own spite.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#85

There really should be a micropayments setup on the internet that's not advertising based. Let these models pay a nickel to read the article, covered by the multi trillion dollar AI blank check.

The biggest problem with micropayments is that the buyer needs to be anonymous or you'll be creating a massive surveillance apparatus, which is the thing we're trying to get rid of. But existing laws make it difficult to build something like that which is easy for normies to use, so someone either needs to come up with a creative solution or reform the laws.

GNU Taler[1] is an interesting middle-ground in the payments space: privacy-preserving for consumers, non-blockchain digital cash, and keeps merchant activity taxable.

I do worry about their whitepaper recommending it for a CBDC[2] (linked from [3]) which points out the state can implement negative interest rates, and that its architecture requires the issuer to get involved even in "spot your friend a $20"-level use cases. Since the issuer would presumably be required to KYC everyone, that also creates a big surveillance problem.

[1]: https://www.taler.net/en/index.html

[2]: https://www.snb.ch/public/asset/de/www-snb-ch/publications/r...

[3]: https://www.taler-systems.com/en/digital-currency.html

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#87
post #83

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

I'd rather let Archive block access to that specific article for a while, but still archiving from the start.

In effect, robots.txt should have an "embargo" directive?

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#88
post #70

The oldest news station in my city has partnered with a local college to house their archives going all the way back to when their content was gathered on black&white film. IIRC, using the footage is free (with proper attribution), but you have to pay for the media you choose to receive. The last time I looked, this was pre-digital play out systems, so we're talking video tape costs plus a fee to cover equipment/VTR…

On AWS, S3 has a downloader-pay option since basically forever. Maybe a non-technical user would be baffled by this, but a HN user won’t have trouble paying for the download using their existing AWS account. This would be a fine solution if the cost of distribution is the only concern, without considering royalty for copyright.

Most places (all??) aren't going to be doing AWS->AWS transfers like that. They'll have a web portal with you can use a payment option that ultimately generates an expiring authorized URL.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare is trying to push for that, but every time it's mentioned people complain (because they hate Cloudflare for making them wait 2s for a captcha) and nobody proposes an alternative solution. I don't think this is going to happen, unfortunately, and the internet will get silo-ed into oblivion.

People don't hate micropayments because it's Cloudflare promoting them, it's because it truly is a shit idea, for many reasons. People would equally reject Netflix, if Netflix fooated the idea of replacing the subscription model with pay-per-view micropayments. > ...nobody proposes an alternative solution Such is the human condition - some problems simply have no satisfactory solutions.

I do rent movies on Apple TV or Google Play for $4 rather than pay Netflix $20/mo for a smaller collection of movies.

I would never watch 6 movies in a month, and the selection with Netflix sucks by comparison to what is available when renting.

The subscription services are only a good deal if you binge them

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#90
post #15

That's a real shame. I am involved with some history-related projects and the number of websites which go offline is huge, and the wayback machine is incredibly helpful for unearthing these dead sites. It is not hard to imagine a future in 50 years time where a huge percentage of this content is lost forever, or at best incredibly hard to find.

I wonder what’s the motivation though. Subscriptions? At a minimum they could limit based on recency. It’s “news” after all so having a number of days of delay for archival would solve most issues, I assume.
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