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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#81
Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance:

Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same lawsuit in 2019 or 2021, meaning his claims were untimely for the 3 year statute of limitations.

Because the statute of limitations is a precondition, the jury was not asked to find any other facts. They may tell the press what they thought on other issues, or they may not.

The judge was prepared to immediately accept the jury’s finding, and said she agreed that the jury’s decision was supported by the evidence.

It is possible for Musk to appeal, but success is vanishingly unlikely. Whether Musk’s claims are barred by the statute of limitations is a quintessential question of fact, and appellate courts are extraordinarily deferential to factual findings by juries so as a practical matter it’s almost impossible to appeal this verdict.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#82
post #32

Ending a trial over a bureaucratic technicality is not good justice.

Statute of limitations is not a "bureaucratic technicality", it is the law.

Then why did the American justice system needed nine jurors when a clerk could have sufficed?

The American judicial system is completely Byzantine and rotten, from top to bottom. Worse than many third world countries.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#83
post #51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statute of limitations is not a "bureaucratic technicality", it is the law.

Can some lawyer explain the rationale of statute of limitations? Like why does a robber get to get away with the crime if they are able to evade the police for x number of years. Is it just because the trials suck after a while cuz no one remembers anything?

To a large extent.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#84
post #51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statute of limitations is not a "bureaucratic technicality", it is the law.

Can some lawyer explain the rationale of statute of limitations? Like why does a robber get to get away with the crime if they are able to evade the police for x number of years. Is it just because the trials suck after a while cuz no one remembers anything?

Not a lawyer but generally it is as you say: "because the trials suck after a while cuz no one remembers anything". It's not fair to have a trial when the evidence is unreliable because of the flow of time.

Encouraging timely action is another factor. Generally people with real harms will file sooner than later, otherwise why wait?

It's also to grant peace of mind -- so people can stop worrying about potential litigation after some amount of time.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#85
post #51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statute of limitations is not a "bureaucratic technicality", it is the law.

Can some lawyer explain the rationale of statute of limitations? Like why does a robber get to get away with the crime if they are able to evade the police for x number of years. Is it just because the trials suck after a while cuz no one remembers anything?

Evidence degrades, memories fade, witnesses die. Generally the worse the crime, the longer the statute of limitations. Murder in most places has no limit.

Also, if someone hasn't committed a crime in, say, 20 years, there's questionable need to lock them up for three years to deter the behavior. Goal is to optimize the overall system even if some people slip through the cracks.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#86
post #3

Sam is just too good at this game and as I said before [0] is far worse than Elon and also outsmarted him. Of course this will be appealed but, as you see the claims just don't stick. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41651664

I’m not a Sam Altman fan, but I think it’s debatable if he’s worse than the guy who did a sieg heil at a political rally

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#87

Ending a trial over a bureaucratic technicality is not good justice.

If you consider a statute of limitations to be a mere bureaucratic technicality, then you might as well say we shouldn't have the entire Anglo-American legal system.

Moreover, there is no "justice" here either way--it's just rich people suing each other.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#89
post #51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statute of limitations is not a "bureaucratic technicality", it is the law.

Can some lawyer explain the rationale of statute of limitations? Like why does a robber get to get away with the crime if they are able to evade the police for x number of years. Is it just because the trials suck after a while cuz no one remembers anything?

That's definitely one of the reasons; evidence gets worse over time. Memories fade, witnesses die or become unavailable, documents get lost or destroyed, and physical evidence degrades. In this case specifically which is centred around a lot of discovery of emails and text chats, you can imagine that in other 5-10 years a lot of that discovery might become impossible to get and could drastically alter the outcome of the case.

It's also generally considered unfair for someone to have an indefinite threat of being sued or prosecuted hanging over them when their ability to defend themselves gets weaker over time. Limitations discourage strategic delays or using old claims as leverage far into the future. Without limitation periods, old business transactions could be reopened forever, estates could never fully settle, people and businesses would face constant uncertainty.

Ultimately, the courts are just better at resolving current disputes than reconstructing old ones.

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